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Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

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Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#91

Post by konart »

azinman2 wrote: post #67
curriculum wrote: post #37

I'm most excited for the treesitter integration and its potential to amplify Vim's "killer feature": text editing as a language. Vim's editing language feels most powerful when I'm using its text objects: "ciw" means "change in word", "cis" means "change in sentence", and so on. But Vim's built-in text objects are not always a perfect match for the code you're editing. Suppose you want to change the first argument of…

Do you find your brain can actually work that way? My issue with all of these relative jump points, repeat this N times, etc of VIM is by the time I’ve calculated in my mind what the command should be I’d have already done it with just standard navigation/mark/yank/repeat. But perhaps you have galaxy brain ;)

plugins like https://github.com/phaazon/hop.nvim help a lot in cases where it may be hard to tell how to jump to point X

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#92

Post by kzrdude »

shmageggy wrote: post #57
becquerel wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, vim is appealing because of the composable keyboard commands that let you navigate through text in a very powerful way. When you get good with it, it's way quicker than using a mouse. It also makes you feel cool, which is most important of all.

All modern IDEs have vim bindings.

My experience is that many of them are shoddy experiences. Some might be really good though.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#93

Post by kzrdude »

typon wrote: post #30
skrtskrt wrote: post #23

I switched from vim to neovim because I thought I needed to to use coc.nvim - turns out I didn't need to, coc.nvim works in vim 8+ As a neovim user who is just having neovim load my vimrc - nothing neovim specific -, I don't see a huge difference. Are there features I am missing out on? I do like the idea of having everything in my vimrc so I could still use it with vim on a server if needed.

In general, nvim has better defaults than vim. You can simulate an out of the box nvim experience by adding a few lines to your .vimrc. Besides that, I think the only big difference I've noticed is the nvim exclusive plugins.

nvim should find a way to commit to "good defaults" in a way that updates those defaults in the future, when nvim develops. So that it's not stuck in the hole that Vim is in, only a bit further along.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#94

Post by konart »

anaganisk wrote: post #36

I have an honest question, the real advantage of Vi is its installed everywhere, and just works over ssh. What is the benefit of a terminal IDE like neovim or vim with tens of something plugins? Vscode or other powerful IDEs do the work much better.

> Vscode or other powerful IDEs do the work much better.

Better how?

As much as I respect VSC and IDEA authors - they are often 'too much' and too heavy. IDEA (and its children like Goland) in particular.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#95

Post by gosukiwi »

pdimitar wrote: post #48

NeoVIM seems like a big upgrade over a lot of editors. As a very casual Emacs user who never got excited enough for the "self-documenting and programmable editor" idea, VIM gets more appealing by the day for me. I am also using Spacemacs for a year or so and it's definitely better than normal Emacs. Haven't tried Doom Emacs and I doubt that I will, regardless of a lot of positive feedback. I mean, Emacs is alright bu…

For me, Spacemacs with evil mode and Vim are quite similar, but I always end up going back to Vim because it's just a) way faster for me, and b) it integrates into my workflow better.

For example, I don't want an extension to take care of git for me (magit), it's easier for me to just alt tab or bring a terminal in vim and do it there.

I find Emacs users prefer to do everything in the editor, while I'd rather have one tool do one job. Of course what job exactly should a tool do is subjective, and varies from user to user :)

Vim surely tales some "learning tax", new users are encouraged not to add every plugin they can find, instead, try to do things "the vim way". But that is also subjective.

My experience with Vim was just make it more friendly first (installing things like NerdTREE and making it behave more like other editors I was used to), then slowly learn how to do what those plugins do with just vanilla vim, and see if I can either remove them or replace them with a more "barebones" and "vim-compatible" plugin.

For example, I now use vim-dirvish which is like a better `netrw` (Vim's default file browser).

I am biased of course, but I think Vim/Neovim is just great, and always worth checking out.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#96

Post by duped »

agambrahma wrote: post #41
duped wrote: post #33

> Give Neovim 0.5 a try, you will find that it is not difficult to make it as powerful as VSCode Does Neovim support webviews in extensions? Can it? There are a lot of useful visualization tools that VS Code allows that require them. It's one of the most powerful features of the editor, imo.

OTOH, Neovim can work in a remote SSH session, fully featured within a terminal. (Yes, I know people don't do a lot of SSH-ing and coding these days)

You can do this in vscode too.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#97

Post by mellery451 »

sriram_sun wrote: post #25

C++ folks, do you see any big improvement in cscope type navigation? I've tried ycm and a couple of others. Now settled on ripgrep. However, I do need a decent plugin that helps with finding references to a symbol and navigation back and forth in C++. Not finding it in nvim after several attempts. Coc+clangd has only added to the headache. Coc is pretty good for js and python though.

yes - I use coc + clangd and there is no comparison with cscope. The level of accuracy you get with clangd is significantly better than tags/cscope. The main thing you need to make clangd work properly is an accurate compile DB. Yes, you can general/coarse compile settings, but the accuracy drops off for a project of any size. I also suggesting staying reasonably up-to date with clangd releases since they are adding important features/fixes with each release.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#98

Post by CarelessExpert »

azinman2 wrote: post #67
curriculum wrote: post #37

I'm most excited for the treesitter integration and its potential to amplify Vim's "killer feature": text editing as a language. Vim's editing language feels most powerful when I'm using its text objects: "ciw" means "change in word", "cis" means "change in sentence", and so on. But Vim's built-in text objects are not always a perfect match for the code you're editing. Suppose you want to change the first argument of…

Do you find your brain can actually work that way? My issue with all of these relative jump points, repeat this N times, etc of VIM is by the time I’ve calculated in my mind what the command should be I’d have already done it with just standard navigation/mark/yank/repeat. But perhaps you have galaxy brain ;)

Keep in mind, even if you don't use motions, text objects, and counts during interactive editing (my own repertoire is pretty limited for the exact reason you mention here), they can be enormously powerful when used with macros.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#99

Post by kzrdude »

criddell wrote: post #51

Offtopic, but I wish the author would add a bit of whitespace on the left and right sides. In my browser (Firefox) the text touches the outside edges and gives the impression that I need to horizontally scroll.

It probably wasn't tested with such a narrow viewport, then.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#100

Post by diegocg »

azinman2 wrote: post #67
curriculum wrote: post #37

I'm most excited for the treesitter integration and its potential to amplify Vim's "killer feature": text editing as a language. Vim's editing language feels most powerful when I'm using its text objects: "ciw" means "change in word", "cis" means "change in sentence", and so on. But Vim's built-in text objects are not always a perfect match for the code you're editing. Suppose you want to change the first argument of…

Do you find your brain can actually work that way? My issue with all of these relative jump points, repeat this N times, etc of VIM is by the time I’ve calculated in my mind what the command should be I’d have already done it with just standard navigation/mark/yank/repeat. But perhaps you have galaxy brain ;)

The way vim works is actually the opposite of what your brain wants, this is one of the reasons why learning vim tricks is hard.

The vim model is "action-object" (eg dw, delete word). A more natural, friendly and interactive model is the opposite, "object-action": first you select the text, your editor highlights the text, then you apply actions to the selection, one by one, and see what happens after each one. Because the text is highlighted beforehand and you see the effect of each action in real time, building chains of commands is much easier and friendly for novices. If you make a mistake, you see its effects and correct it immediately. In vim you have to build the command chain beforehand and calculate in your head what will happen. If you memorize the commands its fine, but if you don't, it's painful.

This "object-action" model is used by kakoune (https://kakoune.org/why-kakoune/why-kakoune.html), along with native multicursor support I have found it to be a great alternative after years of not being able to memorize vim commands. Documentation is scarcer at this point, though.

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