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One week of Libera Chat

libera.chat

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Re: One week of Libera Chat

#71

Post by ziml77 »

simias wrote: post #58
CornCobs wrote: post #10

The identical experience of libera chat makes me realize how useful open protocols are, and how much harder it would be to do something like this with some platform like discord

I don't use Discord but apparently there was some pretty drama a couple of weeks ago because they made a bunch of changes to the UI of the client that apparently the community didn't like. If you want to have control of your platform then don't use closed source, proprietary solutions!

While I do hate that Discord is being used for all chat needs instead of just sticking to being a replacement for Ventrilo or Skype for gaming groups, I want to point out that the drama is a massive overreaction. Discord made very minor style changes and slightly modified their logo, wordmark, and brand color scheme (with the logo being the only one of those you really end up seeing inside the application).

Re: One week of Libera Chat

#72

Post by xena »

rplnt wrote: post #64
bayindirh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the interface is better than Slack. Don't tell it everywhere. Some people might get offended. :D I agree with you though.

Is there a way to get similar feel that slack has for irc? You know, half a gigabyte of client data, at least 1GB of ram usage, multiple processes, high cpu load?

Run badly written weechat scripts, a lot of them.

Re: One week of Libera Chat

#73

Post by sampo »

CaptArmchair wrote: post #56
supermatt wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is simply an assumption. It is not clear who the owner is exactly because of this "privacy protection". Why does a nonprofit organisation need this privacy protection? The org is the identity that should control it, and the information of the org is a matter of public knowledge (if it REALLY exists, which isnt clear either.) These issues are critical for the trust that the libera.chat domain isn't suddenly going…

> Why does a nonprofit organisation need this privacy protection? This isn't about keeping public information entirely secret. It's about controlling where and how public information is shared. As an individual, you might agree to have your telephone number and your address published in a paper telephone directory, but you might not be so keen to have that information published in an easily scraped online service lea…

> Typically, you could direct yourself to a local tax office or public registry where you could search and look into basic information about a legal entity as defined / outlined in a legal statute.

Sweden doesn't require non-profit associations to be registered.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideell_f%C3%B6rening

Re: One week of Libera Chat

#74

Post by CaptArmchair »

supermatt wrote: post #66
CaptArmchair wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does a nonprofit organisation need this privacy protection? This isn't about keeping public information entirely secret. It's about controlling where and how public information is shared. As an individual, you might agree to have your telephone number and your address published in a paper telephone directory, but you might not be so keen to have that information published in an easily scraped online service lea…

I appreciate your response, and would argue that the website is still lacking transparency. As is theres no evidence that the org owns the domain, or that the org even exists. Thats worrying, and if awareness was higher, its possible people wouldnt be migrating there - especially given the reason for the move in the first place. I personally dont care for all this drama - I have a few small rooms on freenode, and am…

For what it's worth:

This organisation is a "ideell förening" under Swedish law.

> In Sweden there are two kinds of associations: the voluntary association (ideell förening) and the economic association (ekonomisk förening). The second one is a cooperative company and must be registered with the authorities to become a legal entity. The first one is a member-based nonprofit organization and is formed without formal registration. The main steps in creating a voluntary association are explained here.

> Once properly created, the voluntary association of course has to follow the tax law and other laws and rules established by the government. But it also has to follow the unwritten rules and traditions of Swedish voluntary organizations (god föreningssed) which guide how the organization should be run, how it makes decisions and so on.

> ...

> The association is a legal entity, but needs to apply to the tax authorities for a registration number, which is needed for tax reasons but also when opening a bank account or hiring an office and so on.

http://www.voluntarius.com/How-to-create-a-voluntary-associa...

In essence, the organisation proper isn't formally registered or incorporated (e.g. via a notary public) but it will be registered under Swedish tax law. The latter part is probably still being processed by the administrative paper mills.

Re: One week of Libera Chat

#75

Post by ognarb »

eclipseo76 wrote: post #9
phoe-krk wrote: post #6

The noteworthy (IMO, obviously) communities/projects that I have seen jump ship (either voluntarily or by force) are wikimedia & wikimedia, ubuntu, gentoo, centos, kde, postgres, sourcehut, wesnoth, mutt, vim, emacs, lisp, scheme, clojure, haskell. Any other ones that I haven't seen yet?

Fedora is planning too, but it's colliding with our project of having our own Matrix server bridged with IRC.

Same with KDE, but the Matrix wnd Libera team are working on it.

Re: One week of Libera Chat

#76

Post by wut42 »

supermatt wrote: post #22
Jiocus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is https://libera.chat/about specific enough?

Not at all. Why is the domain owned by an icelandic entity instead of the nonprofit? Where is the company registration number of the nonprofit (required to open a bank account - where will donations be held, etc). Its all very vague and handwavy at the moment - just like early days of freenode... EDIT: Loads of downvotes, but why? Any of you want to leave a comment instead of just downvoting?

I think you are getting downvoted because you're making points that I've already responded to you. Libera is a week old. It may have been started to get in shape before the launch and mass resign of a week ago, but give them time to create the org properly (which, again, is in progress, and was already a week ago).

Re: One week of Libera Chat

#78

Post by CornCobs »

PicassoCTs wrote: post #40
CornCobs wrote: post #10

The identical experience of libera chat makes me realize how useful open protocols are, and how much harder it would be to do something like this with some platform like discord

It would be enough for each node, to know the whole contact graph, and have that stored in a open format? Like a xml adressbook, that could be parsed by any software and could be created even with limited apis as provided by discord etc.

It's not the network, though - it's the experience. When some community decides to up and move to libera, I connect and register with the new server and it's literally the same thing.

Clients create the UX and the community creates the content.

Now I imagine trying to get a community off discord to a different platform with slightly different interactions, slightly different "channel" styles, different reactions or role-setting, would be a much harder sell.

That being said, I have nothing against discord - I think they've made a really compelling product and have certainly set a bar for what a future open protocol should cover if it wants to be relevant

Re: One week of Libera Chat

#79

Post by sampo »

wut42 wrote: post #34
supermatt wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is simply an assumption. It is not clear who the owner is exactly because of this "privacy protection". Why does a nonprofit organisation need this privacy protection? The org is the identity that should control it, and the information of the org is a matter of public knowledge (if it REALLY exists, which isnt clear either.) These issues are critical for the trust that the libera.chat domain isn't suddenly going…

The non-profit isn't really live yet, this may be why. I'm sure the libera.chat staff wants do to things correctly this time-- they have learned the mistakes. As said, the entity isn't formally created yet because bureaucracy seems to be slow. This will happen, I'm 99% sure of this.

> The non-profit isn't really live yet

Sweden seems to have really lightweight legislation for non-profits: Write by-laws, convene a meeting of at least 3 people, accept the by-laws, and bang: you're a legal entity. So it may be live, who knows.

You only need to register with the Swedish Tax Office and get an organization number, if you want to conduct business transactions, such as opening bank account, pay taxes etc.

https://skatteverket.se/foretagochorganisationer/foreningar/...

Re: One week of Libera Chat

#80

Post by drmpeg »

phoe-krk wrote: post #6

The noteworthy (IMO, obviously) communities/projects that I have seen jump ship (either voluntarily or by force) are wikimedia & wikimedia, ubuntu, gentoo, centos, kde, postgres, sourcehut, wesnoth, mutt, vim, emacs, lisp, scheme, clojure, haskell. Any other ones that I haven't seen yet?

gnuradio. We also got hijacked.
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