What about the claim that there was a bomb on that plane? From what I have read there was an email sent from a protonmail account and was talking about the Israel/Hamas situation. Are there any developments in that field?
Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
181–190 of 207 posts
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
The radio exchange with Captain Sully is burned in my brain. Departure control (15:29:21): Cactus fifteen twenty nine turn right two eight zero, you can land runway one at Teterboro. [...] Sullenberger (15:29:25): We can’t do it. [...] Departure control (15:29:27): Kay which runway would you like at Teterboro? [...] Sullenberger (15:29:28): We’re gonna be in the Hudson. Departure control (15:29:33): I’m sorry say aga…
> Stone cold and matter-of-fact! Not particularly. "I intend to ditch into the Hudson River as we cannot reach an alternative airport" would have been clearer and avoided wasting time clarifying intentions.
I meant his tone of voice, which sounds very calm and collected for someone who's about to crash an airplane.
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.
What really degrades the discussion is completely uninformed people joining in with lazy statements. Estaseuropano should have read a news article rather than ask a useless (at best) question.
Both degrade the discussion :)
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe those making the analogy are sympathetic to or uncritical of the Belarus government, rather they are saying "I told you so" or "the Morales incident set a precedent, surprise!". Now, Belarus might have pulled this stunt even if the Morales incident had never happened, and that's a fine counterpoint, but you really should not ascribe malice to those who point to the similarities in the two incidents be…
The thing is that there have been many incidents like this, not just the Snowden incident. Israel has done this kind of thing before, dating back to decades ago (and kidnapped people [NAZI war criminals, so frankly probably justified] from other countries territory, too). I doubt Belarus needed the Morales thing as a cover. > Wars have been fought over both, attacks on state ships, and attacks on civilian ships. Yes,…
Sure, but I don't think people mentioning the much-more-recent Morales incident are doing it because they're shills for Belarus. I seriously doubt Glenn freaking Greenwald is a shill for Belarus just because he wrote an article about the two incidents -- would anyone argue that he is?
> [...] (and kidnapped people [NAZI war criminals, so frankly probably justified] from other countries [...]
Yes, indeed, Israel's kidnapping of Adolf Eichmann from Argentina was justified. Snowden is not a Nazi war criminal though, so the comparison only goes so far -- Snowden -at least thus far- is a much more pedestrian sort of criminal than a war criminal. It is possible to feel that the kidnapping of a war criminal abroad is justified and also feel that the kidnapping of a mere spy abroad is not.
> I doubt Belarus needed the Morales thing as a cover.
Have they mentioned it? Anyways, it's easy propaganda for them, isn't it. Sure, it can't be avoided to give the other side some propaganda wins from time to time.
> Yes, this was the casus belli for the war of 1812, supposedly. [...]
Not only. It was also the reason that the Marines exist, as they fought a small war in Tripoli over kidnapping of civilians. I'm sure there are many examples. Anyways, my point is just that we can't blanket condemn people who link these two incidents as shills for Lukashenko.
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was no such forced landing, the plane had enough fuel to return to its departure airport.
My information is different (e.g. Greenwalds account: Without enough fuel to fly an alternative route, the Bolivian pilot was forced to make a U-turn and land in Vienna.)
If the pilot had enough fuel to reach his original proposed refuelling stop in the Canary Islands, he had enough fuel to get back to Russia
(The cockpit audio suggests the pilot actually was worried about the amount of fuel he had left as he reported an issue with his fuel gauge, but "Morales forced to land by minor technical issue" isn't quite as compelling a story...)
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#186If one attempts to scratch the facade of a "great" long-ruling leader one will be torn down with all available means. Regardless whether the leader is a chancellor of a developed country, member of a major political dynasty in superpower country, or a head of a poor authocratic state. Only difference is Belarus cannot afford to buy some positive press. Go ahead western world, agitate these poor youngsters to hop into…
Sorry, but it sounds like you're making death threats.
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#187Given that it's simple for anyone to setup a powerful radio to spoof ATC, and it probably would be too hard to sabotage the real ATC radio, I'm surprised planes haven't been hijacked like this before, but without the use of official ATC.
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#188So it was a fake bomb threat coming from the government.
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Headline: "NATO says Russian aircraft violated European airspace nearly 300 times in 2019" Article: "NATO jets intercepted Russian planes flying close to NATO airspace nearly 300 times in 2019, an alliance official said" These do not mean the same thing.
thank you. and to take this analysis a step further, claims of borders are also not static or a-political. (c.f. Kashmir). Wikipedia keeps a list of these [0]. On the other side of Asia, China makes a larger claim of maritime territory than the US recognizes...and the US Navy regularly sales through those waters [1]. I would encourage people to make a 2 by 2 matrix for soem perspective. Pick two country's...on one ax…
PRC took part in negotiating UNCLOS from 1973 to 1982, and ratified in 1996. They recognized the territories of other countries when they ratified it.
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
The denying permission vs kidnapping distinction does seem important though, regardless of motives doesn’t it?
To me it seems minor in the grand scheme of things. It's still trickery. I assume that in the Snowden case the permissions were withdrawn precisely to force a landing in a country where Snowden could be arrested. Belarus doesn't have the same alliances, so they resort to dirtier trickery to accomplish the same goal
It definitely is not. Denying someone access to airspace the way they did for Snowden to a gov’t level official is the equivalent of a bouncer stopping just the head of a competing club from entering - so the cops could grab him. Not seen as supportive, but not that crazy.
What happened in this case is the state level equivalent of holding someone and their friends who were walking on the sidewalk in front of your house at gun point - and then dragging the one you thought had spray painted your house a week earlier into your basement never to be seen again.
There is zero expectation that someone would or could use state level military assets to force a civil airplane flying under legal authorization and long standing agreements with no expectation of it landing in your country, under the flag of another nation, to grab someone you like.
It’s not like it hasn’t been possible, it’s just exceptionally hostile to everyone else and in violation of pretty much every international norm.