Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can not possibly trust their version.
but you can blindly trust reuters?
More than Belarus? Yes.
Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
141–150 of 207 posts
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#142Don't forget that the country that started to divert planes to catch democrat dissidents was the United States. But Snowden wasn't in the plane. Details here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/as-anger-toward-belarus-mou...
It is asinine to compare the two situations. Greenwald is wrongly equating the two together for his puppeteers. 1) Snowden had already been charged at that point and was running from the law. Morales's plane was diverted because it was believed to be providing passage to a criminal. While I don't know what Snowden did was right or wrong, it is clear that Snowden broke laws. His intentions might have been good but he…
Same as Snowden, Roman Protasevich is fugitive wanted by a country’s law enforcement. There’s a warrant and all.
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
But only through carelessness. They thought they were shooting at a Ukrainian military transport plane.
No carelessness, that's exactly what they were told to do: shoot down everything that flies. That was their explicit order.
Do you have a source for that?
The official investigation concluded it was a mistake by poorly trained soldiers who thought they were downing a military An-26 plane.
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Denying access to airspace of a private plane feels a little different than forcing a commercial plane to land with threat (and real actions) of violence. The level of crimes involved is also an important distinction. What Snowden did is illegal in pretty much every single country in the world (if committed against that country). On the other hand, what Protasevich did, many countries have laws to protect such action…
I think you're choosing an arbitrary standard to defend your narrative. "Protasevich broke laws, but these are not laws that we consider bad." I could also say that "being a whistleblower about a government agency violating the rights of millions of it's citizens" is something that Western democracies claim to protect, when it's not happening to themselves.
The denying permission vs kidnapping distinction does seem important though, regardless of motives doesn’t it?
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there any indication that the pilots were aware of the military jet?
Is there even a credible report of it being accompanied by a military jet? The reports I have seen are all sketchy on that part.
TASS reported it thus:
MINSK, May 23. /TASS/. Belarus’ defense ministry has confirmed that a MiG-29 fighter jet was scrambled on Sunday to escort the Ryanair passenger plane that made emergency landing at Minsk’s airport.
"After the polit[sic] of this civil aircraft (the Ryanair plane - TASS) decided to land at an alternate airport (Minsk-2) and turned the plane towards Minsk, it was decided to scramble a MiG-29 crew on duty from the Baranovichi airport (Brest region)," the ministry said on its Telegram channel, citing Andrei Gurtsevich, chief of the air operations and first deputy commander of Belarus air and air defense forces.
https://tass.com/world/1292845
That's a Russian state controlled 'news' agency reporting on the events of an ally.
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can find tons of data on that on Google, maybe not Norway but EU airspace. It happens about once a day. https://taskandpurpose.com/news/russian-aircraft-violate-eur...
Headline: "NATO says Russian aircraft violated European airspace nearly 300 times in 2019" Article: "NATO jets intercepted Russian planes flying close to NATO airspace nearly 300 times in 2019, an alliance official said" These do not mean the same thing.
thank you. and to take this analysis a step further, claims of borders are also not static or a-political. (c.f. Kashmir). Wikipedia keeps a list of these [0]. On the other side of Asia, China makes a larger claim of maritime territory than the US recognizes...and the US Navy regularly sales through those waters [1].
I would encourage people to make a 2 by 2 matrix for soem perspective. Pick two country's...on one axis and put both on there as the 'violated' border and the 'violator' on the other. write headlines for all four boxes.
and to be clear to anyone not reading the parent. The headline and article wearywanderer mentions are literal quotes. The headline is the headline, and the quote from the article is literally the first sentence. They don't match as a factual matter.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes
[1] https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-says-us-warship-il...
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#147Unbelievable that they'd go through this charade to arrest ~Snowden~ Protasevich.
They do it more often than you think. For another one see this https://112.international/society/belavias-passenger-plane-f... . Precisely the same action but by the good guys, so no shit-storm in the media.
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there even a credible report of it being accompanied by a military jet? The reports I have seen are all sketchy on that part.
I think what you are doing ia astroturfing but just in case anyone believes this bullshit, there is zero doubt that a fighter jet went up and 'escorted' the plane. https://apnews.com/article/belarus-europe-edcf633281e3e9a55b... https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/05/belarus-journ... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-23/belarus-d... In case of any doubt left, here is an official sanction decision…
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
PIC is ultimately responsible for safety of flight, not controllers or authorities. Given the unusual message which is essentially asking the pilot to declare emergency and oddly specific instructions to divert I don't think this is unusual. Normally in an emergency the pilot would divert to either the filed alternate airport or to another at the pilot's discretion, they would not be told specifically where to go (th…
Also, when you look at the flight path, the Minsk airport was MUCH further from the Vilnius airport they intended to land at. They were almost to their destination and ALMOST out of Belarus airspace.
A read of the article will clear up this mystery for you.
Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk
#150Don't forget that the country that started to divert planes to catch democrat dissidents was the United States. But Snowden wasn't in the plane. Details here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/as-anger-toward-belarus-mou...
I have seen this line of whataboutist reasoning as a counterpoint in every single forum that approaches this topic.
I can't understand how such a contrived equalization is spread in so many different forums.
The other replies make excellent, well-sourced points for the distinction of the Morales and Belarusian situations, so I won't repeat them. It seems easy to understand and prove this distinction.
I'm genuinely curious if this whataboutist reasoning could be contributed to by an active campaign to muddy the Belarus discussion or just anti-west/pro-anarchy idealisms.