Live data from Hacker News

EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

bbc.com

391–400 of 422 posts

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either for humanitarian reasons, or because Germany has an ageing population and desperately needs young workers to support its welfare state.

It is one. The majority of migrants, qualified or not, have a hard time getting work permits. Finding work, low paid but paid, isn't the main challenge. Doesn't do any good if you aren't allowed to take that work so. Also, our social systems are doing well. Thanks for worrying.

"our social systems are doing well"

If you include pension systems, not so much. "Altersarmut" ("poverty of the old age") was not a widely used word in the 1990s, now it is a frequent topic in German media.

In many other European countries, old people live in their own properties with mortgages long paid off, so they aren't directly touched by rent increases. But Germans, for some reason, mostly like to live in rented flats and have a comparatively low home ownership rate, even in their old age. And the rents have grown quite a lot in big German cities. This means quite a squeeze for the elderly.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#392
post #388
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They call for blood. You call for blood. This won't lead to less blood. As I stated in my comment and as you casually confirmed. I don't want blood at all.

> They call for blood. You call for blood. This won't lead to less blood. Yes it will, because Belarus nor Russia are in a position for any serious confrontation. As soon as you call their bluff, they will retreat, as they have done many times before. Their power comes from YOUR FEAR and unwillingness to react appropriately to their provocations. Both Rusia and Belarus are mafia states that serve as piggy banks to ol…

I am truly sorry to say so. This is very simplistic, aggressive and arrogant. I don't want to excuse what has happened but we are in desperate need for way more capable and resourceful political elites.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#393
post #392
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They call for blood. You call for blood. This won't lead to less blood. Yes it will, because Belarus nor Russia are in a position for any serious confrontation. As soon as you call their bluff, they will retreat, as they have done many times before. Their power comes from YOUR FEAR and unwillingness to react appropriately to their provocations. Both Rusia and Belarus are mafia states that serve as piggy banks to ol…

I am truly sorry to say so. This is very simplistic, aggressive and arrogant. I don't want to excuse what has happened but we are in desperate need for way more capable and resourceful political elites.

Yeah, bend over and take another load. What will it be next time? A drive-by shooting of a dissident and a bunch of bystanders in Trafalgar Square? Another airliner shootdown? Russian tanks in Kiev?

They've already started two wars, murdered countless people home and abroad, blown up ammo depots on NATO territory, shot down an airliner, now hijacked another. How stupid can you be to continue this appeasement. Why should they stop?

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#394
post #17

But how often do Lukashenko and his circle actually fly out of Belarus anyway? He already had no problem with closing his own borders before anyway, so it's not like this is going to seem like a strong move to him and it only really hurts the Belarusian people.

> But how often do Lukashenko and his circle actually fly out of Belarus anyway If you are a Belorusian elite with kids in US and UK schools, money in Switzerland etc, living comfortably so long as Lukashenko is president. Then suddenly your assets are frozen, and your children can't travel to London when their next semester in the very expensive school starts. All because Lukashenko had to discipline some kid. You a…

That strategy has, I think, never worked in the history of dictatorships. It probably won't start working now.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But how often do Lukashenko and his circle actually fly out of Belarus anyway If you are a Belorusian elite with kids in US and UK schools, money in Switzerland etc, living comfortably so long as Lukashenko is president. Then suddenly your assets are frozen, and your children can't travel to London when their next semester in the very expensive school starts. All because Lukashenko had to discipline some kid. You a…

That strategy has, I think, never worked in the history of dictatorships. It probably won't start working now.

It at least has a very low cost so even if it has marginal success it seems like an easy call.

However, it can’t stop there. In this case, unfortunately, it has to get worse before it gets better for the average citizen in Belarus.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#396
One might, briefly, struggle with this question:

Can a cabal of morally bankrupt bribe-takers wielding selective-outrage-justice weapons against own citizens (Marine Le Pen, Trump, and their supporters)

be scolding another, less-presentable Dictator?

And the Obama admin behavior [1] with the attempted Snowden plane intercept, is not much different either, I agree..

[1] https://www.france24.com/en/20130703-bolivia-president-evo-m...

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#397
post #145

Worth noting in all of this that Belarus recently closed their land borders to citizens [1], under the guise of COVID, but in reality to stop people leaving. The only way out was flying from Minsk, which is now even less of an option if there are no flights to the EU. As others have said these sanctions will likely do more to harm the repressed citizens of the regime than Lukashenko [1] https://www.bnt.eu/cs/zpravy/p…

People (me and friends) reroute their travel through Moscow to get to Minsk now. Annoying but still i believe that this is a right decision from eu side.

What about Kiev? Is it a worse option?

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irritate citizens enough and they will start revolting. Tho life there is bad enough that they ain't got time for that when your instinct calls for survival.

I don’t know, I don’t buy the “let’s make people suffer so that they’ll revolt” logic. I don’t think that EU should make Belarus citizens suffer. And ideally there should be better internationally-sanctioned ways to replace disfunctional governments and (what’s more important) institutions.

Know better way? Let me know if the comments!

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#399
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia and Belarus are very close allies. I doubt anyone who is at risk by transiting in Moscow would be safe in Minsk

You think Russia would risk having their planes banned all through Europe to give a two bit dictator a reporter?

Nobody is going to ban Russia. Look at the map. How do you think they'd fly between EU and China/Japan? Over Russian territory. Case closed, even not talking about nukes and stuff, just on economic reasons. For heaven's sake, they are finishing a major gas pipeline between Russia and Germany (look up North Stream 2), what bans could there be? Russia is not Belarus (even though Belarus is definitely a puppet of Russia) and EU would not dare to go as far, however nice it would sound. And Putin knows that very well.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#400
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Germany could become power independent” and I doubt that. First in general, second on statistics (e.g. produce aluminum and other energy expensive products outside of Germany). But I gave you, for the sake of the argument, that it is possible. You still would have to compensate for ongoing energy demand growth. Be it inside Germany or outside. So your "final target" is an exponential moving target. " It just has no…

What statistics? What happens in 10-30 years? You haven’t provided a single data point in the context of this conversation. The graph showing the growth over centuries is logarithmic, so that blue line going a little south is actually a massive deviation from an exponential curve and completely disproves the point. That article talks about 100-300 years as the first physical limits if you kept this absurd growth rate…

"The country’s energy consumption is down to 1990 levels."

Yes, sure. Since they outsourced the energy intensive productions. But since you don't want to understand it, it is meaningless to try to explain it to you.

Post reply on HN