EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies • Hacker News Board

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#291

Post by staticman2 » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:02 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #157

mcky wrote: post #145

Worth noting in all of this that Belarus recently closed their land borders to citizens [1], under the guise of COVID, but in reality to stop people leaving. The only way out was flying from Minsk, which is now even less of an option if there are no flights to the EU. As others have said these sanctions will likely do more to harm the repressed citizens of the regime than Lukashenko [1] https://www.bnt.eu/cs/zpravy/p…

I'd like to see a worldwide agreement that no country will ever stop a citizen from leaving, as long as they have permission to enter another country. Even if the person is in prison or debt, they can always leave with just themselves to another country willing to take them. If all nations agreed to that, we could stop worrying about most other human rights abuses, and country governance becomes more of a free market…

A country would turn into "religious terrorism refugee land" and people would murder nonbelievers and then immigrate there.

Russia would assassinate people and the assassins would have safe travel home.

Billionnaires would murder their divorcing spouses then flee to billionnaire refugee land with their money.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#292

Post by vixen99 » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #151

ceilingcorner wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagreeing with the EU != equivalent to an authoritarian regime. Politics is more complicated than Good Guys vs. Bad Guys.

Hungary is objectively an authoritarian regime because it removed separation of powers, stacked court with political appointees, closed down virtually all independent press, made state TV into a propaganda piece for Fidesz, etc. Not because it "disagrees with the EU".

Stacking the court with appointees? Something the US will never do.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#293

Post by julianlam » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #260

londons_explore wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few countries who will pretty much let anybody in. Migrants often bring with them skills that the locals don't have, and in any mass migration, those who migrate (vs stay where they are) tend to be the fitter, smarter, richer people. The main reason not to take migrants is you might see substantial economic losses as migrants send income back home to support family. You might alienate your existing popula…

you might see substantial economic losses as migrants send income back home to support family. Is that a real problem? Assume they get paid in local currency (e.g. US dollars). Option one; they buy a foreign currency with those US dollars, and send that foreign currency overseas. The dollars stay in the US and get spent. Option two, they send those US dollars overseas; those US dollars ultimately either come back to…

A currency exchange is a zero sum transaction. Whether it is US dollars or Philippine pesos makes no difference, the value stayed in-country.

When it gets sent overseas, it leaves the country and is spent elsewhere, so that is a loss in value for the originating country. The only value remaining would be whatever fee was charged on its way out.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#294

Post by teachingassist » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

petre wrote: post #227

throwaway2037 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear WastingMyTime89 (<-- not at all!): Excellent post. Thank you to clarify these important details! I wonder if but other (non-EU) European states will follow suit, such as United Kingdom, Norway, Switzerland, etc.

The UK has already done it. "The UK has suspended the operating permit for Belarusian state airline Belavia, and EU leaders have called on member states to take similar action." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57236489

Given that Minsk to London Gatwick is Belavia's furthest west flight (B2851, three times per week), this has limited effect.

Belavia has no reason to fly over UK airspace otherwise.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#295

Post by pc86 » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:07 PM UTC

Ichthypresbyter wrote: post #218

londons_explore wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see a worldwide agreement that no country will ever stop a citizen from leaving, as long as they have permission to enter another country. Even if the person is in prison or debt, they can always leave with just themselves to another country willing to take them. If all nations agreed to that, we could stop worrying about most other human rights abuses, and country governance becomes more of a free market…

>I'd like to see a worldwide agreement that no country will ever stop a citizen from leaving, as long as they have permission to enter another country. It's in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Article 13 Section 2: >Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. Of course, it's not clear how much legal force the UDHR has.

> Of course, it's not clear how much legal force the UDHR has.

It's perfectly clear - zero, unless the violation is so egregious other countries are willing to go to war over it.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#296

Post by MayeulC » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:07 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #71

The part of TFA that seems to be glossed over in the comments here is that Belarus released a video in the last 12 hours of him confessing to "crimes", which was presumably extracted under physical duress.

His girlfriend was arrested together with him, it's not hard to imagine a way to pressure him into confessing.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#297

Post by mensetmanusman » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:08 PM UTC

staticman2 wrote: post #291

londons_explore wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see a worldwide agreement that no country will ever stop a citizen from leaving, as long as they have permission to enter another country. Even if the person is in prison or debt, they can always leave with just themselves to another country willing to take them. If all nations agreed to that, we could stop worrying about most other human rights abuses, and country governance becomes more of a free market…

A country would turn into "religious terrorism refugee land" and people would murder nonbelievers and then immigrate there. Russia would assassinate people and the assassins would have safe travel home. Billionnaires would murder their divorcing spouses then flee to billionnaire refugee land with their money.

All of these three already happened

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#298

Post by staticman2 » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #297

staticman2 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A country would turn into "religious terrorism refugee land" and people would murder nonbelievers and then immigrate there. Russia would assassinate people and the assassins would have safe travel home. Billionnaires would murder their divorcing spouses then flee to billionnaire refugee land with their money.

All of these three already happened

You are missing the point that none of these happened without the criminal taking the risk that they would be caught before escaping the country where the crime occured.

The proposal is to make the law change so these are risk-free crimes. The law would not be a deterent to commiting crimes.

The fun thing about this proposal is when people say they want "countries to compete" they are often pushing for a market solution for the rich to get richer. But in this case it would hurt rich and poor alike. Jeff Bezos has little to gain from american law to be optional for americans and anyone to be able to murder him and opt out of the law by leaving the country.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#299

Post by cnlevy » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

unixhero wrote: post #251

proxysna wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People (me and friends) reroute their travel through Moscow to get to Minsk now. Annoying but still i believe that this is a right decision from eu side.

That transit in Moscow can be risky to some politically exposed persons.

Russia and Belarus are very close allies. I doubt anyone who is at risk by transiting in Moscow would be safe in Minsk

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#300

Post by beyondcompute » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

dzhiurgis wrote: post #193

beyondcompute wrote: post #184

It feels like the ban hits ordinary citizens more. The rich and the powerful (including politicians) won’t be affected as much. :(

Irritate citizens enough and they will start revolting. Tho life there is bad enough that they ain't got time for that when your instinct calls for survival.

I don’t know, I don’t buy the “let’s make people suffer so that they’ll revolt” logic. I don’t think that EU should make Belarus citizens suffer.

And ideally there should be better internationally-sanctioned ways to replace disfunctional governments and (what’s more important) institutions.