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Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

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Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#111

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

ryanlol wrote: post #94
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

interesting. this seems to indicate that Schengen countries decided on a national level if they wanted to do checks on their borders. I have seen hard passport checks within Schengen in Croatia, Sweden, Germany, France and Portugal. Good to hear the UK has improved. I should have mentioned I haven't been there since 2018. I was expecting that brexit made things worse and had no idea

This really doesn’t add up. Who was performing these hard passport checks? An airline employee? Where was your flight originating from/going to?

it was done by a customs official. long queue and everyone on the plane had to do it every time that I was there. I've never entered the UK without having to go through this.

Dublin -> Heathrow

Frankfurt -> Heathrow

Stockholm -> Heathrow

... and as I said I have seen similar things arriving in Frankfurt (in 2017 and 2018) and other places (Dublin -> Zagreb etc)

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#112

Post by gabereiser »

withinboredom wrote: post #76
gabereiser wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some cases, private carriers also share passenger manifests to Sabre along with their approved IFR plan. They call it PNR. Passenger Name Registry.

Fly VFR instead of IFR?

Yup. You have to stay under the airspace but this or GPS is one way of hiding yourself from the major GDS systems.

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#113

Post by wl »

Scoundreller wrote: post #108
Gorbzel wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, but why wouldn’t one expect reliably repeat customers to be treated with increased consideration in these circumstances? Seems to me this is true in pretty much every industry, yet for some reason with flights, certain folks (likely not the FFers) get very upset to realize their price sensitivity/lack of airline stickiness moved them to the back of the line.

Can go both ways. The non-loyal flyers may never book with you again if they don’t get what they want. A lot of the FFers don’t have much freedom in their booking, and are in too deep in the FF program to switch preferred airlines now.

The frequent flyer programs have less lock-in than you might imagine. Many airlines have status match programs, where someone who has status in one airline's frequent flier program will be extended the equivalent status in another's for a short period of time. If the passenger maintains a certain level of activity with the new airline, they keep their status.

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#114

Post by benhurmarcel »

djxfade wrote: post #11
pandem wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's how it works in America, but it doesn't mean it's the same everywhere. And given that the post was motivated by recent events in Europe it doesn't seem too relevant. In Europe when you go through security no one checks your id. In fact most of the time when you fly inside Schengen with hand luggage only no one checks your id at all. But there definitely isn't something comparable to TSA that would have t…

The last few years I have been flying, my ID has been checked before entering the security check. This was a recent change introduced a few years ago. I presume this is done everywhere in Europe.

It depends on the airline and airport. For example Lufthansa typically doesn't check IDs.

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#115

Post by ryanlol »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #111
ryanlol wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really doesn’t add up. Who was performing these hard passport checks? An airline employee? Where was your flight originating from/going to?

it was done by a customs official. long queue and everyone on the plane had to do it every time that I was there. I've never entered the UK without having to go through this. Dublin -> Heathrow Frankfurt -> Heathrow Stockholm -> Heathrow ... and as I said I have seen similar things arriving in Frankfurt (in 2017 and 2018) and other places (Dublin -> Zagreb etc)

None of these routes were within Schengen, of course you’re going through border control when flying to the UK.

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#116

Post by ummonk »

disabled wrote: post #104
jeltz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a great way to get detained by Greek airport security. I do not see why Greek airport staff would do anything other than call security when someone flashes a KGB badge.

LOL do you think they actually carry badges? That would be quite incriminating. Instead, it’s more like they are carrying fake passports issued by the Russian Federation. But, one likely would not get caught traveling on a fake passport issued by their country’s government’s spy service, unless they had already travelled on another (perhaps legit) passport abroad (Russia has internal passports too) that has fingerpri…

Russia provides passports for Belarussian agents?

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#117

Post by vkou »

Kbelicius wrote: post #55
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not know that. Some websites claim US nationals do not need a passport to travel domestically https://www.skyscanner.com/tips-and-inspiration/editorial/pa... and while in 2021 europa.eu website says EU nationals do not need a passport to travel within Schengen this has already been not true before covid. Arrive at FRA or MUC or CDG and you will end up having to show your passport either at a manned booth or a m…

I think you are mixing id with passport. I doubt that you need a passport to fly internally in US. I know that as a EU citizen you absolutely do not need a passport to fly within the EU but you do need some form of id.

I will point out that having to show a passport to fly is not the same thing as doing a real border crossing.

A few reasons for it:

1. The 'dweeb' at the airport doesn't assume you are a criminal/drug smuggler/thief who is coming to steal his country's jobs.

2. Border guards can, and frequently do exercise their discretion at turning you away, or making your life very uncomfortable for the next 15 minutes -> 8 hours.

3. Being nervous when dealing with border guards is further evidence that you are hiding something from them.

4. Border guards care very deeply about who you are traveling with, and your relationship with them, where you are going, why you are going there, and who you are going to meet when you get there. The 'dweeb' at the airport only cares that you can show proof that you are who you say you are.

Which particular piece of ID you have to show before you board a plane is largely a technicality (And you can do some US -> Canada border crossings with only an enhanced driver's license). It's the everything else that makes border controls suck. I would far rather show my ID and be waved through, than not have to show my ID, and be subjected to all the other regular border controls.

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#118

Post by Tsiklon »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #21
djxfade wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last few years I have been flying, my ID has been checked before entering the security check. This was a recent change introduced a few years ago. I presume this is done everywhere in Europe.

same experience here and I'm also all over Europe. The time when you could just fly without hassle only lasted a few years. Now I have to look into the empty eyes of some dweeb wanting to check my passport like I'm entering Beirut in 1982. I feel obliged to thank them out of artificial politeness but really want to just ask them why they had to get a job that allows them to display power. Not that these checks ever p…

If you take an international railway journey in the EU it’s very civilised indeed, just rock up to the station, scan your ticket through to the platform and away you go.

I’ve experienced this taking the Thalys to Brussels from Amsterdam, to catch an onward connection to London.

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#119

Post by tgragnato »

ummonk wrote: post #116
disabled wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL do you think they actually carry badges? That would be quite incriminating. Instead, it’s more like they are carrying fake passports issued by the Russian Federation. But, one likely would not get caught traveling on a fake passport issued by their country’s government’s spy service, unless they had already travelled on another (perhaps legit) passport abroad (Russia has internal passports too) that has fingerpri…

Russia provides passports for Belarussian agents?

Yeah they apparently had Russian passports and the full support of the Russian state.

Maria Zakharova even wrote that “It is shocking that the West calls the incident in Belarusian airspace ‘shocking,’”.

She is the Director of the Press Department for the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and is famous for claiming things as ludicrous as this one…

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/konstantinbenyumov/mari...

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#120

Post by BBC-vs-neolibs »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #83
nicoburns wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not completely alien here in the UK, using brand names for generic concepts is a bit of an Americanism (perhaps because of a cultural tendency to glorify private business?) "Band-aids" are plasters (short for sticking plasters) here, and "Kleenex" are tissues (even if they're actually kleenex branded). Having said that, to "google" something or to "photoshop" something are both in common usage here. I suspect t…

A widespread example of this phenomenon in Poland is calling a particular form factor of shoes "adidas" (plural: "adidasy"), regardless of the brand or manufacturer. In fact, I can't think of another word to refer to this shoe category. Another one is "kserokopiarka" for "photocopier" (and thus "skserować" for "to photocopy"), which derives from Xerox. And I think using "jeep" (pronounced as in English) for a class o…

To "xerox" is or was to photocopy, in the US too.
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