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Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

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Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#91

Post by FpUser »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #86
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #81

I wonder what obligations the Swiss lords have been neglecting. Perhaps the townsfolk could bill for absent services? They are not peasants, as such things likely don't exist in modern Italy. So how can they owe anything? The Swiss baron's descendants - are they still barons? Can they still hold a fief? Perhaps the Swiss baron's lord can be convinced to levy a similar tax on them, and return the money to the town. It…

Why do you assume taxes are a payment for services? In most cases there is no written contract with rights and obligations of each party and there is no implied right or obligation of any sort.

>"Why do you assume taxes are a payment for services?"

Because the only alternative in this case is the outright theft.

>"there is no implied right or obligation of any sort."

Sorry but there is implied obligation. I totally expect to get some services in return for money taken from me and I suspect I am not alone. For experiment try sending part of government that does actual services for constituents for a year long vacation and see what happens.

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#92

Post by peteretep »

Accacin wrote: post #17
pmlnr wrote: post #5

In the UK, during the purchase of our house we had to take a "chancel liability insurance", because our freehold once belonced to a rectory, so to protect ourselves from repair liability towards a chapel that has been here for centuries, we had to pay a one-off insurance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chancel_repair_liability Leftover laws are weird things. EDIT: PS: sadly, the legendary, obligatory archery practice…

Yeah, in a town near the one I grew up in, there's a street called 'Butt Hole Lane'. That made me laugh a lot when I was younger, even when my parents explained to me what the 'Butt' in this context meant.

Could have been worse... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gropecunt_Lane

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#93

Post by mytailorisrich »

ajdlinux wrote: post #73
toyg wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was literally a one-off £4 in 2006. I doubt it helped the solicitor in any way...

Indeed if you have a fixed fee conveyancing deal (I'm not sure about the UK but it seems common over here) the solicitor is probably losing money just on the administration of filling out the paperwork and then billing you that 4 pounds...

Those indemnity policies are so common that any related admin work has to be included into fixed fee conveyancing deals.

In fact I suspect that these policies are so common partly because of they save solicitors' time and efforts, not least when they are on a fixed fee: They don't spend time looking into things they just suggest indemnity policies so they are covered and move on.

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#94

Post by RNiK »

znpy wrote: post #79

funnily enough, this hasn't come up on italian newspapers. I checked the Corriere (corriere.it), Repubblica (repubblica.it) and il fatto quotidiano (ilfattoquotidiano.it) since they're three different voices with vastly different opinions on what to report and what not to report. interesting.

Check better => https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27275016 => https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27275025

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#95

Post by kidme »

FpUser wrote: post #91
AdrianB1 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume taxes are a payment for services? In most cases there is no written contract with rights and obligations of each party and there is no implied right or obligation of any sort.

>"Why do you assume taxes are a payment for services?" Because the only alternative in this case is the outright theft. >"there is no implied right or obligation of any sort." Sorry but there is implied obligation. I totally expect to get some services in return for money taken from me and I suspect I am not alone. For experiment try sending part of government that does actual services for constituents for a year lon…

The easy loophole is to spend the money on corruption that benefits you. Like $10 goes to the road, 90$ goes to the road company that finances the road and gives 500k in lobbying money.

This is trivial to get around. Just increase the tax $10.

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#96

Post by Spooky23 »

nomercy400 wrote: post #76
Spooky23 wrote: post #51

I grew up in an area of upstate New York where the land was mostly apportioned into feudal estates by the Dutch. There were anti-rent rebellions in the 19th century and the descendants of the patroons stopped collecting the rent. But… folks never had title to their land and were effectively stuck until a law was passed in the 1960s. It’s really interesting as the effect is that many families have lived there for 400…

Kind of strange that the Dutch are blamed for this, when the British took over mid-1600 and the Americans after the independence war end-1700. Those are two moments where this whole notion of feudal estates could easily have been abolished, but for some reason the new rulers decided against this.

I’m not “blaming” anyone, these are just facts on the ground from nearly 500 years ago. I was introduced to this stuff as a teenager working for an old farm - their family was one of a few that had a land grant. The original taxes were 10 pigs and some wheat!

The Dutch colonial system, continued in some form for a period of time. I’m afraid I’m ignorant of the details and complexity of land policy as the English, the pre-Constitutional US and current US government took over. Adding to the complexity, New York has had at least 4 constitutions in the post-colonial era!

There’s similar examples in the US — Baltimore has or had land rents from the British colonial era.

Personally it’s a fascinating subject to me, and if I was a history professor, I would have probably studied it! Alas, I’m not.

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#97

Post by mring33621 »

LatteLazy wrote: post #41
sonthonax wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That insurance is still a tax, but a really old fashioned one, where private tax farmers collect and administer the treasury rather than the state. That £40 must actually cover the costs of the local church's roof.

Agreed. I'm always impressed by the stickability of these things. No one has said "this is bs, fix your own roof, it's not 1400 anymore".

...Draws sword

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#98

Post by mikro2nd »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #61
throwaway894345 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The word Butt is derived from the Anglo French word 'bouter' meaning to expel. Wow. I suppose that’s the same etymology for “butt” in the anatomological sense?

Wiktionary says: Pprobably from Old English buttuc (“end; end piece”; also, “short piece of land”). I wonder how "to expel" ends up being "a short piece of land"...

Been wondering lately how the word "fast" means "moving quickly" and also "not moving at all" (as in "hold fast" and also the root of "fasten").

(Also: "refrain from eating".)

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#99

Post by Mauricebranagh »

zabzonk wrote: post #75
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I live near the TI HQ in Dallas, so I thought I'd take a peek. The Bedford location apparently still exists as "Bedford Heights," and it does look like a mini TI. The Bedford Heights website does call out the "cyclone-proof roof," which they imported directly from the Dallas HQ blueprints.

Ah, thinking back (it was a loooong time ago, and I was only on-site for five days) I think she may have mentioned typhoons. The thing that really struck me at the time was not so much the building, but the security. There were card-access only doors every few yards, and they wouldn't give me even a visitor card - I had to be escorted to the lav and canteen all the time, which was irritating for all concerned. God kn…

Back then it was a FAB - does seem excessive I have had a couple of interviews (both avowed jobs) like that.

Huntings wouldn't even let me in the main building and Hanslope Park I was escorted (its much nicer than its description in the laundry files)

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#100

Post by throwaway894345 »

mikro2nd wrote: post #98
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wiktionary says: Pprobably from Old English buttuc (“end; end piece”; also, “short piece of land”). I wonder how "to expel" ends up being "a short piece of land"...

Been wondering lately how the word "fast" means "moving quickly" and also "not moving at all" (as in "hold fast" and also the root of "fasten"). (Also: "refrain from eating".)

Per the venerable etymonline.com:

> The meaning "quickly, swiftly, rapidly" was perhaps in Old English, certainly by c. 1200, probably from or developed under influence of Old Norse fast "firmly, fast." This sense developed, apparently in Scandinavian, from that of "firmly, strongly, vigorously" (to run hard means the same as to run fast; also compare fast asleep, also compare Old Norse drekka fast "to drink hard," telja fast "to give (someone) a severe lesson"). Or perhaps from the notion of a runner who "sticks" close to whatever he is chasing (compare Old Danish fast "much, swiftly, at once, near to, almost," and sense evolution of German fix "fast, fixed; fast, quick, nimble," from Latin fixus). The expression fast by "near, close, beside" also is said to be from Scandinavian. To fast talk someone (v.) is recorded by 1946.

> "act of fasting," late Old English fæsten "voluntary abstinence from food and drink or from certain kinds of food," especially, but not necessarily, as a religious duty; either from the verb in Old English or from Old Norse fasta "a fast, fasting, season for fasting," from a Proto-Germanic noun formed from the verbal root of fast (v.). In earlier Old English fæsten meant "fortress, cloister, enclosure, prison."

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