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EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

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Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#61
post #20

Why is there no one talking about some sort of military response like literally building a base at the bielorussian border with fighter planes that would prevent such equally military actions like that.

I think economic interventions are cheaper and faster to implement.

Military interventions have a tendency to escalate.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#62

Nice that something more than strongly worded letters was done.

They hardly have any airlines in Belarus, may be only one Belavia may be of any significant size.

Flying over Belarus might be a good income for the country - no longer.

An interesting shift of the last decade or so of sanction wars is that sanctions must be targeted against the regime, not the people. Otherwise it's a bit of an own goal - you give the regime a bogeyman to point at.

As such, this seems like a good, pragmatic type of sanction. Few regular Belarusians will feel the impact, but it does strike at the regime, even if it seems like small change.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#63

This is not exact, the EU ban decision is not taken yet. see link here: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021... "- calls on the Council to adopt the necessary measures to ban overflight of EU airspace by Belarusian airlines and prevent access to EU airports of flights operated by such airlines;" decision has still to be made by the council, and then - to my understanding - implemented by all m…

If it's restricting flights over their airspace then it only really needs Poland, Lithuania and Latvia. And I'm sure they would be quick to implement such a ruling, as even before this incident they weren't on the best of terms with Belarus.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) I am not supporting also this one, especially as it was a sad case of vassalisation 2) Refusing to allow use of airspace is different from hijacking plane and abducting people. If someone is using "state piracy" only for the second one it is entirely defensible. EDIT: 3) at least in this case I can say that my country (Poland) was not complicit, though probably mostly because they were not asked by USA to do so. 4…

> 1) I am not supporting also this one, especially as it was a sad case of vassalisation Don't get me wrong I agree. > 2) Refusing to allow use of airspace is different from hijacking plane and abducting people. If someone is using "state piracy" only for the second one it is entirely defensible. Not much different the plane was forced to land in Austria. Also this was a diplomatic mission, unlike commercial flights…

Plane was flying to South America, had plenty of fuel to return to the starting point, and airspace wasn't closed in that direction (the only time I can think of a sudden widespread "land now or be shot down" issue was 9/11)

The flight wasn't covered by Chicago either as it was a diplomatic flight - the alleged search is a whole separate problem

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#65
post #40
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say banning Belorusian airlines after Belorus hijacked a plane (and kidnapped passengers) is like having your kid kidnapped and proclaiming that the kidnapper isn't welcome in your house. Edit: s/Belorussian/Belorusian

They also sanctioned involved individuals. It's more like a family kidnaps their own kid while he was at your birthday party, and as response you get a restraining order and freeze some of their bank accounts.

The citizenship of the victim doesn't really matter.

You're are not the property of the country where you are a citizen. Especially, not if you live abroad.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#66

EU gets to appear "tough" while, unfortunately, this is only going to hurt people of Belarus. This is only going to help Lukashenko's narrative that the West is plotting against Belarus.

This is how sanctions usually work. The leaders of the country should be representing interests of the people.

> This is only going to help Lukashenko's narrative that the West is plotting against Belarus.

This narrative only works short-term. Sooner or later people realize it is not what is happening no matter how much propaganda is being produced.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#67

Nice that something more than strongly worded letters was done.

They hardly have any airlines in Belarus, may be only one Belavia may be of any significant size.

It is the only one.

The problem is that EU itself is closed due to COVID(we can't get visas renewed) + we have internal ban on transit through ground borders due to COVID(but most likely to prevent people from moving out permanently)

So essentially, with this ban it is hard to escape if situation goes south.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#68
post #20

Why is there no one talking about some sort of military response like literally building a base at the bielorussian border with fighter planes that would prevent such equally military actions like that.

Noticed a USAF drone and a US Army plane flying around Latvia earlier on FR24

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#69
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For start, it has some real - though minimal - impact, unlike typical strongly worded letters.

I'd say banning Belorusian airlines after Belorus hijacked a plane (and kidnapped passengers) is like having your kid kidnapped and proclaiming that the kidnapper isn't welcome in your house. Edit: s/Belorussian/Belorusian

It wasn't one of the EU's citizens, it was a Belarusian citizen. They are a sovereign country with the full backing of Russia. I would say this is the minimum the EU needed to do, and probably some sanctions on the leadership as well. It's hard to do much more without further deteriorating relations with Russia. I prefer to avoid a tank war in Eastern Europe, thank you very much.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They hardly have any airlines in Belarus, may be only one Belavia may be of any significant size.

Flying over Belarus might be a good income for the country - no longer. An interesting shift of the last decade or so of sanction wars is that sanctions must be targeted against the regime , not the people. Otherwise it's a bit of an own goal - you give the regime a bogeyman to point at. As such, this seems like a good, pragmatic type of sanction. Few regular Belarusians will feel the impact, but it does strike at th…

I'm not sure if Belarussians having to cancel their holidays to the West and going to Crimea instead is going to have the desired effect of driving sympathies among Belarussians toward the west.

Moreover the people who actually like Lukashenko will probably be pretty indifferent to this. They weren't planning on flying to Berlin any time soon. I'm almost certain Putin will jump on the chance to have alternate routes to Russian tourist destinations opened up (possibly even subsidized, like he did for flights to Crimea).

I'm starting to wonder if Lukashenko/Putin wasn't counting on this kind of knee jerk reaction. If sanctions were on the cards anyway, with this stunt they got to pick the timing, reason and type.

Edit : not a popular analysis, it seems...

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