What's the community-driven alternative?
There is no other micro kernel OS being developed with similar effort.
GNU Hurd will be released any time now!
Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub
41–50 of 324 posts
Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're willing to give it another go, you should try it in FEMU (our fork of QEMU): https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/get-started/set_up_femu
Not to discredit the effort, but saying you've released your own fork of QEMU to run your own OS, creates an impression that you're perfectly happy to (prefer to?) create a parallel universe for yourself, with your own tools and its own ecosystem... Which will obviously all be controlled by Google. Not very good optics, IMO. If you want promote Fuschia as a useful, general purpose computing platform (and not just an…
Yet Google's Browser engine is a fork of WebKit and surprise it is used in Chrome, Electron and QtWebEngine and everyone is using it.
As Fuchsia is highly dependent on Flutter and the whole ecosystem will be able to run Flutter apps on day 1, I would bet that this is going to be the Android replacement in this decade.
Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're willing to give it another go, you should try it in FEMU (our fork of QEMU): https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/get-started/set_up_femu
Not to discredit the effort, but saying you've released your own fork of QEMU to run your own OS, creates an impression that you're perfectly happy to (prefer to?) create a parallel universe for yourself, with your own tools and its own ecosystem... Which will obviously all be controlled by Google. Not very good optics, IMO. If you want promote Fuschia as a useful, general purpose computing platform (and not just an…
As raggi mentioned above, you can use both.
The additional feature that FEMU provides us is Vulkan support, which allows you to interact with a GUI.
On the team, we use both. For example, I know many folks on the Zircon team prefer vanilla QEMU.
Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub
#44This is exciting to see (in a neutral way, I'm not rooting for it) because I wonder how large fuchsia will grow and if it will contend with Linux. Why wouldn't Google want to push containers running it's brand spanking new os without 30+ years of cruft on gcp. And if it has performance/security why wouldn't developers start moving over.
> without 30+ years of cruft AKA learned experience
Learned experience for long-lived multi-user systems running on heterogenous hardware, of questionable relevance to today's landscape.
Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub
#45What is interesting about Fuchsia is how Google first created Flutter and made it popular for Android/iOS and to a lesser extent the web. And now they start releasing Fuchsia OS/devices and developing apps/software for it will immediately feel familiar to many mobile developers.
This could help adoption instead of yet another GUI framework to learn from scratch.
Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Linux
This is the correct answer. Do not allow a subtly different technical design distract you from the largest switcheroo here: this is a single-vendor enterprise OS delivered under the guise of open source, it comes with all the trappings of a single-vendor enterprise OS. Let's not be too quick to forget when Android first started out, all the idealism about the wonders of a free software mobile OS. A decade later, it's…
I have a Pixel phone and run GrapheneOS on it. No Play Services, no Google apps, only open source software from F-Droid. Works really well.
Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
> without 30+ years of cruft AKA learned experience
Learned experience for long-lived multi-user systems running on heterogenous hardware, of questionable relevance to today's landscape.
That’s true. But unfortunately all that baggage comes with lots of genuinely useful stuff too. Starting from scratch rarely works, unless you’re willing to put in a lot of time and effort, and are in it for the long haul, and people that want to start from scratch rarely are, and google doesn’t have a good track record in these matters either.
Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub
#48Hmm, looks like Fuchsia still uses Dart/Flutter for the front end. My experiences have been positive (although I’m sure someone will be happy to explain how my opinion of Flutter is wrong) so I’m glad to see it.
I'll gladly come in with the other end of the argument :)
Dart? A half-baked language with quite a lot of unexpected gotchas that can cause you to lose days trying to find why something isn't working (only to notice a lib author forgot to add a return for one branch of the code, or the code works differently depending on what runtime it's on).
The Flutter ecosystem is constantly breaking, the plugin system was broken for at least a year and "in migration" where most of the stuff you do is either "broken for future" or "is going to be broken in future". Dependencies are in a circular hell where updating one thing might make you update the whole project, but then your project might not be compatible with the current Flutter version so you'll have to nuke your directories and call 'flutter create' again in the project so it recreates stuff with the new templates.
Also don't get me started on issues. Had a crash span for over 6+ months on all devices with low-budget Adreno GPU-s, most of the issues were "closed automatically" because of inactivity or because they declared it does not follow the template google requires for the issue, altho there is dozens of them reported, they held a hotfix for months on end in a branch with other changes because it was " a lot of work" to merge it downstream. Had a talk with the Flutter team about reconnecting to isolates on one conf, one dev's answer was "oh yea that's problematic, maybe just the best is for the user to restart the app".
It's classic Google behaviour wrapped in a "new cool thing" package.
Flutter is a great thing if you wanna build a cheap app fast and never worry with maintaining it ever again. If you're going for something long-term, avoid it like plague.
Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub
#49Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Learned experience for long-lived multi-user systems running on heterogenous hardware, of questionable relevance to today's landscape.
That’s true. But unfortunately all that baggage comes with lots of genuinely useful stuff too. Starting from scratch rarely works, unless you’re willing to put in a lot of time and effort, and are in it for the long haul, and people that want to start from scratch rarely are, and google doesn’t have a good track record in these matters either.
Normally I'd agree about Googles track record. But they HAVE to innovate in the android/mobile space. It would be their death as opposed to just dropping a random messaging app.
And they did all the "from scratch" work. It would be short sighted to not let zircon at least have the potential to replace Linux.
Apple vertical integration strategy recently took a big step forward and googles response may well be this.