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How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

jeremyaboyd.com

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Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#591

Post by dmitriid »

mlindner wrote: post #557
dmitriid wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG :facepalm: I can't even begin to imagine who coded this, and why?! Basically: If you open a folder from a "shortcut" from the sidebar, and press Cmd+J, you get the barren options from the screenshot: https://imgur.com/3meteoB . And it doesn't matter if you keep clicking on other folders Since I always use just a few folders linked from the sidebar, that's what I would always get. To get to the "actual finder wind…

I don't even understand how you got to that "barren view". I've never seen that in my life. Edit: I guess that "barren view" only happens when viewing things as "columns" mode. I just figured out how to make it look like yours. I always use list mode (as I often want to see/sort by date modified time or file type and I want to see file sizes). Columns view seems like a waste of screen real estate. It has nothing to d…

Haha. This is getting curioser and curioser :)

Finder is seriously broken

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#592

Post by pantulis »

jolux wrote: post #565
AshamedCaptain wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a Windows-only thing. Even OSes with proper packaging systems (and even MSI on Windows) will still forget a lot of files e.g. in user's home directories. How do you even decide when do you remove those?

>How do you even decide when do you remove those? I think as a developer you have to take pains to keep them all in one place, and delete them when uninstalling.

Would you expect that uninstalling any Unix tool, would remove your .rc files in your $HOME?

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#593

Post by akra »

samatman wrote: post #269
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

> Why is it that when I click Finder, nothing actually opens? This would be an example of the 10% of the UI which isn't identical. One of the fundamental differences between macOS and Windows is the menu bar. There's only one at a time, and it belongs to the program which has the focus. A corollary of this is that you don't need a window to have a program. It's not just Finder, most macOS programs are perfectly happy…

"I've probably already typed Cmd-N or Cmd-O, depending."

This is, particularly for a novice or intermediate user IMO quite intimidating. It means there is some learnt behavior + keyboard command required to "see anything" and work with the program. If I'm using my trackpad/mouse trying to work out after I start a program why I can't see anything like I've seen new Mac users do for some time it isn't great. Because there is no window its easy to click anywhere else in my search for my "missing program" and immediately lose the "menu bar" that allows you to (Cmd-N) or discover the ability to do that. It's almost like the app never booted up.

Sure you can learn behavior and work around it as I and you have had to do, but if the menu bar behavior changes per window focus anyway I don't see the difference than Windows with menu bar on the window other than "its the Mac way".

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#594

Post by akra »

dsego wrote: post #374
aoeusnth1 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s another UX paradigm I have to remember (and usually don’t) instead of using the standard one which is second nature to me.

Nobody is forcing you to use macs. Doesn't make the mac any less intuitive if it doesn't follow what alternative operating systems are doing.

Actually some companies do. You want Linux since the software you are writing typically leverages a Linux environment, but the company doesn't want to support Linux so gives you a Mac machine instead. Its a poor substitute for the real thing IMO on a number of fronts at least for me. While it still works some of the time I would prefer a different environment and enjoy things like better Docker performance, avoid compile time differences between ARM and x64, odd differences in Terminal command behavior, etc, etc.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#595

Post by smsm42 »

bayindirh wrote: post #590
smsm42 wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just drag it where you want while pressing CMD? I know it's not cut but it prevents a lot of errors I think. Try making this trick work when your destination is three levels deep into a different hierarchy. Oh yes, you should have thought about it beforehand and opened two windows and pre-arranged them in a way so you can drag from one to another, because it's so intuitive! And yes, the metaphor of "take from one p…

> Try making this trick work when your destination is three levels deep into a different hierarchy. Oh yes, you should have thought about it beforehand and opened two windows and pre-arranged them in a way so you can drag from one to another, because it's so intuitive! I regularly do this to be honest. I drag the file to my home or Dropbox folder and dive from there. I also regularly drag and drop files from finder t…

From you repeated mentions of "Windows" I assume you somehow have the idea there's only two ways things could be - like they are in Windows and like they are on macOS. I haven't used Windows since.... oh my, I dunno, since XP was new and fresh? Maybe a bit later but not for a decade by now. But I've certainly have some habits from using various systems - including Windows. Which hasn't been very intuitive - nobody can say that the system where you click on "Start" to shut it down is intuitive - but at least they wouldn't be so arrogantly smug about being what they are not.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#596

Post by wraptile »

prewett wrote: post #526
wraptile wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who recently switched to MacOs (not by their own choice) there are hundreds of little annoying, broken or inconsistent OS things I find. One of my favorites just happened yesterday with finder - I was trying to figure out how to rename a file, well the usual fx keys aren't doing it so the common process was to go to the toolbar context menu where hotkey is indicated next to the action's text. Rename for so…

I'm curious, why didn't you click on the filename after it has been selected? That initiates rename on both Finder and Explorer, as well as other applications that edit that sort of text. (Except not OpenOffice's spreadsheet tabs, grrr)

I generally don't use mouse where's possible so click+wait+click is a rather unintuative motion for me.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#597

Post by wraptile »

moogleii wrote: post #433
wraptile wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who recently switched to MacOs (not by their own choice) there are hundreds of little annoying, broken or inconsistent OS things I find. One of my favorites just happened yesterday with finder - I was trying to figure out how to rename a file, well the usual fx keys aren't doing it so the common process was to go to the toolbar context menu where hotkey is indicated next to the action's text. Rename for so…

Not showing the shortcut key for rename is definitely dumb. And I wouldn't be surprised if it was because of some silly reason like a high level designer at Apple thought it wouldn't match the cmd paradigm, and so would rather not show it (even though there are plenty of existing exceptions elsewhere). But I would argue F2 is less obvious. It's only obvious if you learned it at some point or if you were there when F2…

I only mentioned Fx keys in passing - my point was that they key was not present in the context menu which is a very common idiom to indicate action is not bound to any key. If all actions have key and this one doesn't: the first natural though is, well, this action has no key. The fact that it's leftout and hundreds of other similar anectodes really shows off that macos is not any more magically intuative than any other OS and has lots of space to grow.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#598

Post by muthuraj57 »

robomartin wrote: post #482
samatman wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it that when I click Finder, nothing actually opens? This would be an example of the 10% of the UI which isn't identical. One of the fundamental differences between macOS and Windows is the menu bar. There's only one at a time, and it belongs to the program which has the focus. A corollary of this is that you don't need a window to have a program. It's not just Finder, most macOS programs are perfectly happy…

The single menu bar design breaks down very quickly once you start using a large display. Evolve to multiple large displays and it is an absolute mess. The only option you have is to enable the toolbar on every screen, which starts to be laughable. I have used Windows setups with as many as 50 screens (command and control center). Having each application exist within its own window with all relevant menus in that win…

Also it is one of the main reason "focus follow mouse" feature couldn't be implemented in Mac OS. I use multi-monitor setup and I used Ubuntu for my personal computer before Covid, but now started using my office Mac for everything and I hate that Mac doesn't have this option.

I typed in wrong window more times than I would like to admit because of this stupid singe menu bar design.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#599

Post by ubercow13 »

klodolph wrote: post #473
ubercow13 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I’m misunderstanding, 1, 2 and 3 all work the same way on Linux, at least in GTK and I think Qt too

I think you're going to have to provide some more details, because I'm trying 1, 2, and 3 in GTK and I can't get ANY of the three options to work. 1. I have a folder open in Gnome's "Files" app. I can't drag it into the dialog--there's nothing draggable. I could go up a level to the enclosing folder, drag the child folder into the save folder, and then go back down a level to the child folder... these extra steps see…

With 1 I think you're right, but you can also drag any file in the folder and it will just locate and highlight it in the GTK filepicker, not actually open it, which achieves the same thing. In Thunar I can also drag the currently open folder (or any parent) from the breadcrumb bar, but this doesn't work in Dolphin.

With 2 and 3 - yes you're right I didn't realise that was how it worked on macos! Those are both interesting features I haven't seen elsewhere. Although I think 3 would be possible to implement say in gedit, as the inode of the file you save shouldn't change when you move it in the file manager, everything in Linux is usually path-based so this might be kind of unexpected.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#600

Post by pseudalopex »

rdsnsca wrote: post #578
pseudalopex wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want it out of the task switcher.

Quitting it won't do that, MacOS keeps the icon on the last 3 programs run in the dock (task switcher).

The task switcher is what pops up when you press Cmd+Tab. And showing recent apps in the dock is optional.
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