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Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

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21–30 of 128 posts

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#21
post #11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's how it works in America, but it doesn't mean it's the same everywhere. And given that the post was motivated by recent events in Europe it doesn't seem too relevant. In Europe when you go through security no one checks your id. In fact most of the time when you fly inside Schengen with hand luggage only no one checks your id at all. But there definitely isn't something comparable to TSA that would have t…

The last few years I have been flying, my ID has been checked before entering the security check. This was a recent change introduced a few years ago. I presume this is done everywhere in Europe.

same experience here and I'm also all over Europe. The time when you could just fly without hassle only lasted a few years. Now I have to look into the empty eyes of some dweeb wanting to check my passport like I'm entering Beirut in 1982. I feel obliged to thank them out of artificial politeness but really want to just ask them why they had to get a job that allows them to display power. Not that these checks ever prevented a "terrorist" attack. Airports only catch small drug mules that could have taken a bus anyway.

Freedom of movement was one of the major selling points for joining the EU to the unwashed middle classes. That has all gone to the dogs (at least for business travel). The only advantage of free movement that still exists is being able to live and work in other countries.

It's typical when they do something in the name of "sEcURitY" they will never roll it back. Classic "salami tactic" and a slow encroachment by the system[1]. Opinions on this obviously vary depending if a person uses a uniform for work in order to compartmentalize their conscience, has to defend family working for the security apparatus, or peddles crappy/racist "AI based" biometric software to the system. Perhaps wanting to become a "person of authority" is like a gender thing which people have no choice over. So I shouldn't make fun or look down at them: ACAB ("Assigned Cop At Birth").

Also the worst of all countries has doubtlessly been the UK. Even you arrived coming from Europe, they shepherded you through the slow-lane like a smelly goat with noises that sound like Dick Van Dyke doing a Bricktop impression.

[1] https://archive.org/details/JacquesEllulTheTechnologicalSoci...

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#22
post #4

Yes, they do, in fact, almost everybody in the travel industry can get its hands on PNRs, and manifests. A travel history of almost everybody can be reconstructed fully for the last ~10 years from those databases. And of course that stuff went to .onion sites. That's just like almost everybody's financial information collected, and reported for the sake of "counterterrorism" (CRS,) and, soon, SIM card subscriber data…

Just a side note - it's peculiar how we use "googling" as a synonym of searching. The guy you've mentioned won't be using google and I hope he doesn't have google on the device to fetch all necessary data

Does google still make search appliances?

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I worked at NCR building the kiosks at the airport. We integrated with Amadeus and Sabre as well as duplicating the data directly to the BOSS systems (old terminal mainframes). Your passenger information and your itinerary are shared with TSA, Airlines, published to travel systems, and checked against NO-FLY lists the moment you press that “Get boarding pass” button. Whether it be by an agent, at the kiosk, or…

Is there anyway to buy/book directly instead going through this Amadeus, and this Sabre software you mention?

Fly private?

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#24
post #4

Yes, they do, in fact, almost everybody in the travel industry can get its hands on PNRs, and manifests. A travel history of almost everybody can be reconstructed fully for the last ~10 years from those databases. And of course that stuff went to .onion sites. That's just like almost everybody's financial information collected, and reported for the sake of "counterterrorism" (CRS,) and, soon, SIM card subscriber data…

Just a side note - it's peculiar how we use "googling" as a synonym of searching. The guy you've mentioned won't be using google and I hope he doesn't have google on the device to fetch all necessary data

[deleted]

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#25
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a side note - it's peculiar how we use "googling" as a synonym of searching. The guy you've mentioned won't be using google and I hope he doesn't have google on the device to fetch all necessary data

Does google still make search appliances?

I had thought that it was discontinued years ago, but apparently they only started phasing it out in 2016 and finally shut it down in 2019. [1]

[1] https://www.cmswire.com/information-management/google-search...

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#26
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I worked at NCR building the kiosks at the airport. We integrated with Amadeus and Sabre as well as duplicating the data directly to the BOSS systems (old terminal mainframes). Your passenger information and your itinerary are shared with TSA, Airlines, published to travel systems, and checked against NO-FLY lists the moment you press that “Get boarding pass” button. Whether it be by an agent, at the kiosk, or…

Is there anyway to buy/book directly instead going through this Amadeus, and this Sabre software you mention?

Not anymore there isn't. All bookings go through one of the travel systems (Amadeus or Sabre). There's no skirting around it unless you fly a private jet and even then, some share passenger manifests with FAA to clear no-fly lists when they file their IFR plans.

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#27
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anyway to buy/book directly instead going through this Amadeus, and this Sabre software you mention?

Nope. It’s the mainframe software airlines use for “computerized check-in” and the ability to list flights from different airlines for different legs of the same journey, just like banks use mainframes designed for checking accounts or companies use ERP systems or governments make budgets. Outside of actually flying and maintaining planes, these systems are deeply integrated to how airlines coordinate between each ot…

To further this, any systems designed to "replace" these systems must also first talk to these systems and provide identical functionality. This was the case with the old BOSS systems we had to integrate with using term screen scraping and pushing text-based booking codes. The same codes used by agents at the ticking counter when you see them type 500 characters just to look you up in their systems. Only now, they aren't interacting with the BOSS system anymore, it's Amadeus or Sabre they are interacting with.

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#28
post #23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anyway to buy/book directly instead going through this Amadeus, and this Sabre software you mention?

Fly private?

In some cases, private carriers also share passenger manifests to Sabre along with their approved IFR plan. They call it PNR. Passenger Name Registry.

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#29
post #11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's how it works in America, but it doesn't mean it's the same everywhere. And given that the post was motivated by recent events in Europe it doesn't seem too relevant. In Europe when you go through security no one checks your id. In fact most of the time when you fly inside Schengen with hand luggage only no one checks your id at all. But there definitely isn't something comparable to TSA that would have t…

The last few years I have been flying, my ID has been checked before entering the security check. This was a recent change introduced a few years ago. I presume this is done everywhere in Europe.

I frequent a airports in the eu where they do and where they don't: seems to depend on the country and maybe the airport. The number of places where it happens went up.

Re: Do countries get the list of every passenger that's transiting their airspace?

#30
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last few years I have been flying, my ID has been checked before entering the security check. This was a recent change introduced a few years ago. I presume this is done everywhere in Europe.

same experience here and I'm also all over Europe. The time when you could just fly without hassle only lasted a few years. Now I have to look into the empty eyes of some dweeb wanting to check my passport like I'm entering Beirut in 1982. I feel obliged to thank them out of artificial politeness but really want to just ask them why they had to get a job that allows them to display power. Not that these checks ever p…

Also in Europe, but with a completely different experience; it is (well, was, pre-covid) easy to move between EU states.

Within the Schengen Zone it's only the check at the gate to check your ID matches your boarding pass (so no check at "immigration"), and to/from the UK the electronic gates have really sped things up (compared to the old days).

YMMV but I find I'm rarely waiting more than a few minutes at the immigration checks (to/from UK) nowadays.

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