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Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane

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101–110 of 173 posts

Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane

#101
post #15

Urbit is a prank that has somehow lasted for a long time. If you look at their version of machine code, Hoon or whatever its called, it's purposefully obfuscated so that, just to add two numbers together requires I think 4 different instructions. I did my OS class final project on it 6 years ago...

my first reaction was "is this language descended from brainfuck??"

Is that a problem? I've seen Haskell written in terms of Peano arithmetic and that's like the same thing.

(* did not read the article yet)

Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane

#102
post #100
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should encourage people to express dissenting views. The idea that we should do anything in our power to avoid good outcomes for someone that expressed ideas that we don't agree with is worse than hateful and evil: it's stupid and self-destructive.

I do not think it is stupid nor self destructive to avoid enriching people who believe certain humans are more suited to being slaves than others, no. There is diversity of ideas and dissenting views, and he's free to blog about them, but I am also free to go work on other projects/communities that don't enrich landowners who I find morally repugnant. Not wishing to contribute work to directly financially enrich raci…

Wikipedia is pretty biased and far from an arbiter of truth, especially when it comes to summarizing someone's life, beliefs and personality.

A lot of what Yarvin has written is prescient and extremely incisive. Just because his views and models of the world do not align with the current cultural zeitgeist does not mean that he should be silenced or branded a racist. I get the feeling that most of the people that criticize him have not spent even 10 minutes reading him, but propagate regurgitations they've read/heard. This is not the mark of a healthy society.

Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a second, don't distinguish between political and other views. The ideals of the developers certainly shape the product. - Apple: Elegant, powerful, not much user choice but generally well-thought-out. And every bit is designed such that Apple keeps control of the platform. - Unix hackers: Powerful command line interface, do one thing and do it well, KISS, adherence to tradtion (manpages etc.) - Moxie Marlinspike…

>The (political) views of a creator are very relevant Agree completely because it shapes the actual intent of the creation. More just hinting if you could truly do an audit I'm not sure you'd be happy with what you found. For example, an operating system that requires all financial transactions that go through it has to take 30% to go into the wallet of the creators doesn't really seem particularly left leaning...

This is basically a stronger form of Conway's law, the weak form of which is definitely true (and should be respected when planning projects.)

Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane

#104
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think it is stupid nor self destructive to avoid enriching people who believe certain humans are more suited to being slaves than others, no. There is diversity of ideas and dissenting views, and he's free to blog about them, but I am also free to go work on other projects/communities that don't enrich landowners who I find morally repugnant. Not wishing to contribute work to directly financially enrich raci…

Wikipedia is pretty biased and far from an arbiter of truth, especially when it comes to summarizing someone's life, beliefs and personality. A lot of what Yarvin has written is prescient and extremely incisive. Just because his views and models of the world do not align with the current cultural zeitgeist does not mean that he should be silenced or branded a racist. I get the feeling that most of the people that cri…

> Just because his views and models of the world do not align with the current cultural zeitgeist does not mean that he should be silenced or branded a racist.

I agree. The racist things he's said should be sufficient on their own to illustrate his racism, regardless of any other controversial opinions he may have espoused.

I read lots of stuff on his blog as part of due diligence related to a referral to Urbit. Your claim makes it seem like he's simply misunderstood, or painted with a too-wide brush. I wish that were the case.

Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane

#105
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia is pretty biased and far from an arbiter of truth, especially when it comes to summarizing someone's life, beliefs and personality. A lot of what Yarvin has written is prescient and extremely incisive. Just because his views and models of the world do not align with the current cultural zeitgeist does not mean that he should be silenced or branded a racist. I get the feeling that most of the people that cri…

> Just because his views and models of the world do not align with the current cultural zeitgeist does not mean that he should be silenced or branded a racist. I agree. The racist things he's said should be sufficient on their own to illustrate his racism, regardless of any other controversial opinions he may have espoused. I read lots of stuff on his blog as part of due diligence related to a referral to Urbit. Your…

I've started reading him from the timer of his old blog (UR) and I've never encountered anything racist in his writing. Even the bits taken out of context in Wikipedia, are not by any stretch racist. Believing that IQ has a genetic component (I know this is anathema in USA but it's widely accepted in Europe and dominant in other parts of the world) and that blacks score lower than whites (as whites score lower than asians) does not make someone a racist.

Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane

#106
post #94
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly this. I've tried so many times to engage with Urbit but at every turn things seem intentionally inscrutable. I have a star that I've wanted to sell several times, but each time I give up after several hours of unsuccessfully trying to understand the bridge/ethereum documentation. It ends up seeming more like an art project than a new technology.

log into bridge w/metamask or whatever you use -> click on your star's name -> click 'id' in the menu that appears -> click 'transfer point' in the id menu -> input the ethereum address you want to send the star to and click 'generate and sign transaction'. did you really spend several hours trying to figure that out lmao

That sounds like a way to change the owner of a star, not sell it in exchange for eth

What is obvious to some can be obscure for others, “metamask” is hardly a household name

Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane

#107
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia is pretty biased and far from an arbiter of truth, especially when it comes to summarizing someone's life, beliefs and personality. A lot of what Yarvin has written is prescient and extremely incisive. Just because his views and models of the world do not align with the current cultural zeitgeist does not mean that he should be silenced or branded a racist. I get the feeling that most of the people that cri…

> Just because his views and models of the world do not align with the current cultural zeitgeist does not mean that he should be silenced or branded a racist. I agree. The racist things he's said should be sufficient on their own to illustrate his racism, regardless of any other controversial opinions he may have espoused. I read lots of stuff on his blog as part of due diligence related to a referral to Urbit. Your…

lmao imagine pouring over someones enormous political blog searching for any remarks that could be interpreted as racist so you can be allowed to be interested in a software project. Basically sums up our age.

Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane

#108
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just reach out to support@urbit.org if you want to get this figured out. They're very helpful.

I'll second that. They also have a discord server. I had some issues getting started, but they were very helpful in helping me work through it. With respect to its utility, it's primarily a barebones chat app right now.

Thanks both of you!

Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane

#109
post #39

My manager at a previous job a few years ago told me about Urbit, I found the website, and I was extremely confused to what it actually was . Re-reading it now, I'm still a little confused.

I'm of the impression that it is an internet reimplemented on top of the internet that we are using right now.

So, you download a vm emulator, like uxn [0]. This able to use a specific protocol to reach out and communicate with other vm emulators of its kind. But, like the tls namespace, my vm doesn't just reach out to macwrite.com/index.html . It has to go through my switch, through a series of switches of my and other commercial ISP datacenters, until it reaches the server that manages 'com' and then finds the server with the webpage I want. But, that requires people to forward that traffic with their own vm emulators. So, Tlon, the organization that sponsors the urbit ecosystem, sold address space for 'galaxies', which are like the top level domains. They are expected/encouraged to lease out address space to many others, as 'stars', who will relay traffic up and down. Finally, laggards are expected to rent address space and subscribe for bandwidth from the star operators as a 'planet'. A vm without a star, a comet, to, I don't know, sign its traffic, can not communicate with other vms on the network. That is what I've concluded urbit is.

Urbit is sold as the opportunity to reimplement all of computing on top of this system. Like compilers ? They have a language they are building this stuff with. Like OS ? They need to flesh out the vm that you use. Like some application thing ? They probably need that too, reimplement all the things: text editor, web server, build system, and on and on. And you can be pretty sure that your work will be used, because it's a small community and they are apt to need your thing, and it can be a jewel that isn't carrying forty years of compatibility compromises [1] and exploration that was press ganged into production.

[0] https://100r.co/site/uxn.html

[1] http://perfectionkills.com/the-poor-misunderstood-innerText/

Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane

#110
post #44
post #31

I also did a deep dive on Urbit a few months back (shameless plug: https://blog.janissary.xyz/posts/urbit ), and I really agree with the author for the most part. Definitely the most concerning part of Urbit, for me at least, is the obscurantism of Hoon. Much like the author says, it's totally incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't read through every bit of the (lacking imo) documentation. Even a domain-specific langu…

I feel the need to mention that Curtis Yarvin owns "a few thousand" Urbit stars [0]. If your goal is to make Urbit succeed, you'll end up making him very powerful and wealthy in the process. [0] https://urbit.org/blog/a-founders-farewell/

He handed over his private keys to TLON. AFAIU he no longer owns any Urbit real estate.
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