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Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld Xbox

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Re: Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld Xbox

#131

Post by 908B64B197 »

WorldMaker wrote: post #88
lotsofpulp wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem was 100% insufficient ecosystem support. The root cause of which is insufficient Microsoft support. If they had stuck with it and kept investing for 10 years and kept up their investments in physical stores where people could go to buy non malware laden products and get tech help, I think they could have been a 3rd option in today's market.

Microsoft couldn't get over the hurdle that US phone carriers refused to sell a 3rd option at all , no matter how much money or time they threw at that problem. They could invest in physical retail Microsoft Stores all they want, but they were locked out of the stores US consumers actually buy that hardware form factor from, and in many cases they couldn't even get SIM cards for most of the US networks even if they d…

It's also that OEMs and carrier had absolutely no way of customizing Win Phone.

Samsung's dream is for you not to buy an Android phone that happens to have been built by Samsung but a Samsung Phone running Android. That's why they try so hard with their vocal assistant.

Win Phone offered OEMs the option of shipping glass slabs that were competing on price and specs (just like the PC market!) while Microsoft would own all the value added on top. By the time Microsoft started shipping it's own hardware, it was too late.

Re: Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld Xbox

#132

Post by macspoofing »

modshatereality wrote: post #119
macspoofing wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can pair a controller.

The real enemy is latency. Physical switches that trigger an IRQ directly to be handled by the program within microseconds would be ideal for human gaming (edit: or directly reading hardware registers). Everything else is just another weak option, pretending to be a gaming system. Also while I'm on the topic, F microsoft for still preventing me from developing software for their system independently.

>The real enemy is latency

You think a cloud-streamed game is going to be hampered by Bluetooth latency?

Re: Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld Xbox

#133

Post by rtpg »

systemvoltage wrote: post #83
bartread wrote: post #76

No, no, no, no, no, no, NO! Touch controls for most games suck (I've tried). Replicating somebody's Xbox controller on the second screen sucks . It's unendingly annoying when you die over and over in a game because your thumb or finger wasn't in quite the right place to fire or move in a particular direction. Not to mention, the Duo is ####ing expensive: top-end iPhone kind of money for the unlocked variant. If you r…

Now extend your argument to a large equipment that travels at lethal speeds on 4 wheels. It's gotten so bad that I am surprised they've have kept the steering wheel intact and still analog.

to be fair, you shouldn't be messing with your radio or things like that while driving anyways. Just stop somewhere!

Re: Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld Xbox

#134

Post by SimianLogic2 »

SimianLogic2 wrote: post #82

The only good experience I've had with it so far is Slay the Spire (mysteriously missing on Android). I play it full-screen with a gap in the middle -- I wish there was an OS or app-level setting to let me choose whether I want the screen to be slightly smaller with pixel perfect gaps or have a random chunk missing from the middle of every full-screen experience. I pair an XBox controller, but I don't tend to travel…

Update: I played a run on Slay the Spire with the new controls and I actually prefer it to the paired XBox controller. I think this is a pretty great update for any turn-based game (todo: check out Monster Train and Nowhere Prophet).

Re: Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld Xbox

#135

Post by lotsofpulp »

908B64B197 wrote: post #131
WorldMaker wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft couldn't get over the hurdle that US phone carriers refused to sell a 3rd option at all , no matter how much money or time they threw at that problem. They could invest in physical retail Microsoft Stores all they want, but they were locked out of the stores US consumers actually buy that hardware form factor from, and in many cases they couldn't even get SIM cards for most of the US networks even if they d…

It's also that OEMs and carrier had absolutely no way of customizing Win Phone. Samsung's dream is for you not to buy an Android phone that happens to have been built by Samsung but a Samsung Phone running Android. That's why they try so hard with their vocal assistant. Win Phone offered OEMs the option of shipping glass slabs that were competing on price and specs (just like the PC market!) while Microsoft would own…

> By the time Microsoft started shipping it's own hardware, it was too late.

I think if any company had a chance, it was Microsoft. They are the only ones with the in house expertise and cash flow that could have sustained the kind of spending needed for the 10 or whatever years it required.

Of course, it would have required a lot of short term sacrifice, which obviously their executives could not stomach.

Re: Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld Xbox

#136

Post by 908B64B197 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #135
908B64B197 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also that OEMs and carrier had absolutely no way of customizing Win Phone. Samsung's dream is for you not to buy an Android phone that happens to have been built by Samsung but a Samsung Phone running Android. That's why they try so hard with their vocal assistant. Win Phone offered OEMs the option of shipping glass slabs that were competing on price and specs (just like the PC market!) while Microsoft would own…

> By the time Microsoft started shipping it's own hardware, it was too late. I think if any company had a chance, it was Microsoft. They are the only ones with the in house expertise and cash flow that could have sustained the kind of spending needed for the 10 or whatever years it required. Of course, it would have required a lot of short term sacrifice, which obviously their executives could not stomach.

> They are the only ones with the in house expertise

The first windows phones/pockets (based on Windows CE) were already fairly old when the iPhone launched. Microsoft was used to dealing with multiple OEMs, not building it's own hardware.

Re: Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld Xbox

#137

Post by techrat »

passivate wrote: post #114
bartread wrote: post #76

No, no, no, no, no, no, NO! Touch controls for most games suck (I've tried). Replicating somebody's Xbox controller on the second screen sucks . It's unendingly annoying when you die over and over in a game because your thumb or finger wasn't in quite the right place to fire or move in a particular direction. Not to mention, the Duo is ####ing expensive: top-end iPhone kind of money for the unlocked variant. If you r…

I wonder if in the future you could have micro-fluid channels underneath the screen where you can pump fluid to create raised bumps for the buttons. I remember seeing a techdemo years ago, but haven't seen it materialize in a product. This seems to be a good fit.

>I wonder if in the future you could have micro-fluid channels underneath the screen where you can pump fluid to create raised bumps for the buttons.

The problem with this technology is several-fold:

1) Areas that can be raised are fixed.

2) Liquids.

3) Do you like the feel of squeezing a zit when you press a button in a game?

4) Anything that uses this technology will not have a uniform looking screen, relegating the second screen to a sub-status compared to the first.

5) Microfractures due to repeated flex.

6) Scratches at 1 with deeper grooves at 2.

Re: Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld Xbox

#138

Post by hellotomyrars »

truth_ wrote: post #59
neogodless wrote: post #9

What's pretty clear is that the small form-factor multi-screen device needs a compelling story to establish value and utility. The Surface Duo looks like a very cool device that I would probably never use over a phone with one good screen, more power and a great camera. Similar to tablets, I personally just reach for the phone or the laptop or my TV, and never a tablet. But a Duo released with some more power and som…

> Similar to tablets, I personally just reach for the phone or the laptop or my TV, and never a tablet. That's an interesting point. I, too, never reach for a tablet. But I use my tablet a lot to read research papers and books- both fiction and nonfiction. So, to me, it is never a replacement for a mobile phone. It does something else. So, if MS or anybody else wants to popularize this form factor, I believe that the…

I use my iPad as a mousepad 95% of the time. It is the most opulent thing I can imagine but most of the time I am either at my computer, which for me is the optimal way to do any real computing, or I'm out and about and I'm not going to carry a full-size tablet, so I use my phone. However when I'm backpacking I will bring the iPad and use it for a map (Much nicer to have the screen real estate compared to the phone and I'm loathe to pull out the paper backup unless I have to). Similarly at night I can use it to watch videos I've downloaded. I very occasionally use it for reference material if I need to look a manual for some piece of equipment since it is nicer to have the bigger screen for that as well, but for normal books I prefer an e-reader (Kobo Libra H20 for me).

Re: Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld Xbox

#139

Post by Xplune13 »

Shadonototro wrote: post #90
Xplune13 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switch isn't of the same generation though. Switch was released back in 2017. Also, switch didn't face hardware delays like PS5 and XBSX. So not a fair comparison at all.

for comparison: PS4: 115 millions (since 2013) XBOX One: 50 millions (since 2013) People should stop trying to find excuses, we all want a portable console, that is why the Switch sells like pancakes Both Sony/Microsoft missed a huge opportunity Nintendo has no competition, there is room for another player over there

What? When did I say that portable consoles are not needed? Please stop twisting the words. I only said that your comparison is not at all fair based on the year of release, hardware shortages etc.

Of course there should be competition in portable console area, but that doesn't mean one should cherry-pick data and piece it together to prove a point.

Re: Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld Xbox

#140

Post by bartread »

megablast wrote: post #122
bartread wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did mention using a physical controller toward the end of the post. But then it's unclear what the advantage is versus doing that with your existing phone (as I say, unless you already have a Duo).

Bigger screen. Better Sound. Is this just not obvious to you??

Not really, especially because when playing on the move I'm always wearing headphones/earbuds so the device's internal speakers are irrelevant.

The screen size issue is marginal at best. You're trading it for a bulkier device: you might prefer that, and that's cool, but it's not an obvious and objective advantage for everyone as a result.

(Assuming all things equal and you've chosen the separate controller route: if not you lose the bottom screen anyway, because it's used as the controller.)

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