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What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

brookings.edu

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Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#111

Post by eli »

nostromo wrote: post #16
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intentional budget cuts and a harder target. https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-sorry-but-its-just-ea... > For now, the IRS says, while it agrees auditing more wealthy taxpayers would be a good idea, without adequate funding there’s nothing it can do. “Congress must fund and the IRS must hire and train appropriate numbers of [auditors] to have appropriately balanced coverage across all income levels,” the report…

Budget increases will not increase enforcement of rich, politically connected individuals. It will just increase the number of "low hanging fruit" middle-class people they will go after. Besides, many of the best tax evasion strategies are legal -- you just need an army of lawyers and a large pile of cash to deploy them.

> many of the best tax evasion strategies are legal

Isn't the premise of the linked paper that the wealthy use these foreign banks to avoid getting caught underreporting their income and assets? That's not legal.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#112

Post by tialaramex »

notyourwork wrote: post #40
tialaramex wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. There exist politicians who believe that forcing you to fill out the paperwork reminds you that taxes are evil. They're doing it for your own good, see? 2. There exist tax preparation companies which profit enormously from doing the paperwork for you and they'd miss out on that profit if the government just billed you.

> 1. There exist politicians who believe that forcing you to fill out the paperwork reminds you that taxes are evil. They're doing it for your own good, see? Which ones? I don't agree or disagree, but I think it's a good practice to call out politicians when we make claims they do something. That way it gives a more clear line of sight to your claim.

Basically all followers of Grover Norquist. So, almost all Republicans who were around before Donald Trump.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#113

Post by eli »

charlesdm wrote: post #109
supernova87a wrote: post #79

Can someone ELI5, what entities or convoluted mechanisms or businesses do very rich people create / have access to that they can minimize taxes, which the rest of us simply cannot take advantage of here in regular life?

Depends on your citizenship. If you hold non US citizenship, it is generally easy to avoid most taxes by physically relocating to a tax haven (low or no tax). But that is perfectly legal, not fraud.

If people genuinely reside in these places they wouldn't need the shell companies and bank secrecy described in the paper. I don't have a problem with someone moving to a low-tax jurisdiction in order to get lower taxes, but I think that is really the exception.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#114

Post by vixen99 »

internetslave wrote: post #13

I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.

Perhaps I'm missing something but how am I working to keep rich people rich? There must be specific instances but is this a general rule?

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#115

Post by javert »

alistairSH wrote: post #77
javert wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which raises a subsequent question: Why does the middle class clamor to raise taxes on the rich, which won't appreciably benefit themselves, when they could instead push to lower taxes on themselves, which will benefit themselves? Maybe different in Europe, but in the USA tax increases do not find their way back to benefits for the public. I mean unless by "public" you mean the next country we want to "liberate" and…

Anecdotal... my peers (upper middle-class in the US) generally realize the taxes they pay fund all the stuff we rely upon to stay upper middle-class. Good public schools, roads, etc. We just want the rich to pay their fair share too. Or, if you're a jaded cynic, the rich are mostly just greedy sociopaths. They want to minimize their own tax burden and give zero fucks about the betterment of society. They got theirs,…

Both of those things are definitely untrue.

When I lived in the US, the vast majority of my taxes went to the federal government and didn't come back in local benefits like schools and roads.

(Sure, federal money comes back to universities in the form of research grants which pay for foreign PhD students to work in bullshit paper mills. I've seen that firsthand. The wastage of federal money is near 100%.)

Separately, I've known lots of rich people. Of course, they are just like other people. They are not all greedy sociopaths. Grow up.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#116

Post by cool_dude85 »

vixen99 wrote: post #114
internetslave wrote: post #13

I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.

Perhaps I'm missing something but how am I working to keep rich people rich? There must be specific instances but is this a general rule?

Sure. You know those police officers and courts of law and militaries you pay for? Those are the guys whose job it is to keep you from grabbing things from rich people.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#117

Post by maxerickson »

jandrese wrote: post #106
maxerickson wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People mostly take the standard deduction. (85-90% of households in recent years)

Yes, but only because I got capped out on deductions before I exceeded what the standard deduction would give me. Increased my tax burden about 1.5% overall that year. Not as much the next year because I had much less charitable giving. Sure am glad I'm getting to pay for all of the stuff those rich people aren't anymore thanks to their massive tax break. Oh, and my taxes are supposed to increase even more once the T…

A majority of people took the standard deduction prior to the changes too, just not quite such a big majority.

In any case, the standard deduction does have the effect of significantly reducing the administrative burden of taxation, and it crosses off one of the arguments used in favor of pointlessly complex tax filing.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#118

Post by lifeisstillgood »

slifin wrote: post #19
internetslave wrote: post #13

I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.

I have a conspiracy theory that Forbes created the rich list Which intentionally does not have despots oligarchs or royals to skew the conversation to a business matter which can get lost in the left/right divide

Now that is a good conspiracy theory :-)

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#119

Post by michael1999 »

slifin wrote: post #19
internetslave wrote: post #13

I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.

I have a conspiracy theory that Forbes created the rich list Which intentionally does not have despots oligarchs or royals to skew the conversation to a business matter which can get lost in the left/right divide

The don’t list family trusts either. So multi-billionaire families like the Rockafellers and the Rothchilds aren’t there.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#120

Post by javert »

medvezhenok wrote: post #105
javert wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which raises a subsequent question: Why does the middle class clamor to raise taxes on the rich, which won't appreciably benefit themselves, when they could instead push to lower taxes on themselves, which will benefit themselves? Maybe different in Europe, but in the USA tax increases do not find their way back to benefits for the public. I mean unless by "public" you mean the next country we want to "liberate" and…

I'll copy my answer from above since I think it's an important point and relates to your question: "Money at the top levels is not at all like money for the rest of us. For a middle class citizen, money is about consumption and freedom to do what you want (with enough of it). At the top end of the distribution, money is no longer about consumption or freedom (since you can never realistically consume as much as they…

If you take away rich people's money, other kinds of "insiders" will still pull the levers to enrich themselves and benefit their cronies at the expense of the public well-being.

The regulatory state, even if democratic, is fundamentally self-disregulating (as opposed to self-regulating).

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