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How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

jeremyaboyd.com

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Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#511

Post by LambdaComplex »

bumbada wrote: post #58

Very few things are intuitive. Is it intuitive to brush your teeth? No it is not. I spent years brushing my teeth incorrectly and paid for that as a kid until a dentist showed it to me. Is it intuitive to tie your shoelaces? No, you learn it. Your tie knot? Is it intuitive learning to read and write? No, it takes years of practice. Is it intuitive memorizing the presidents or the States of the US, the capitals and co…

Well now I'm worried that I'm brushing my teeth wrong. What were you doing wrong?

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#512

Post by crazygringo »

m463 wrote: post #413
crazygringo wrote: post #348

IMHO installing apps is definitely one of the top two non-intuitive things about Macs. Not to mention it's not even consistent -- sometimes you drag to Applications, sometimes you double-click a .pkg file, sometimes you go to the App Store. The other thing, of course, being an application open without any windows but a menubar present. Start QuickTime and... nothing happens except for the menubar changing, which is i…

The .dmg drag thing has benefits - many times you can run an app from within the .dmg You can also drag into locations that are not /Applications

Sure, and that can be reserved for power users. You can right-click on applications to open them as folders, and the same could be done with DMG's.

99% of people just want to install or uninstall with a click, which is why I wish Finder made that the default workflow.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#513

Post by xiphias2 »

sbtrct wrote: post #505
xiphias2 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find key bindings in MacOS consistent. The first thing I started missing from Windows is the F2 button for renaming things. I can do that everywhere in Windows. In Mac there's no keyboard shortcut for it, so probably I could add it in Finder, but it probably won't work in other file dialogs (or maybe yes).

The return key is functionally the same as F2 in Windows.

Thanks, in Windows that starts the program, but I guess there's another key for that...I'll have to experiment more. I love my M1 Macbook Pro so much that I want to get used to the OS.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#514

Post by amatecha »

tsimionescu wrote: post #395
dsego wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is forcing you to use macs. Doesn't make the mac any less intuitive if it doesn't follow what alternative operating systems are doing.

It does make it less intuitive if it is hiding common interactions behind keyboard shortcuts (cmd+up instead of an Up button) or if it is inconsistent with common paradigms (different shortcuts for copy vs cut + single shortcut to paste is universal outside finder, which uses an entirely different paradigm).

It's not hidden at all - it's actually a very easily-discoverable menu item under the "Go" menu.

In regards to consistency, though I know this isn't exactly what you meant, I just booted a virtual machine with System 6 (released in 1988) and Command-Up was the same key command to open the parent folder. :)

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#515

Post by prewett »

rsynnott wrote: post #351
throwaddzuzxd wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think it's at all obvious which way is _correct_. From a UX perspective the answer is pretty clear. Copy/Cut/Paste is the winning paradigm, which empirically makes it the correct way.

But, again, this isn't really cut and paste at all. It's more like "note position, and _then_ atomically cut and paste". Cutting and pasting files in Windows doesn't work at all like cutting and pasting anything else. Someone who had never used Windows might reasonably expect, on finding 'cutting' a file did something, that if they never pasted the file would just be deleted, because that's how cut and past normally…

In fact, I have used Windows since 3.11, and until reading your comment I thought that cutting without pasting would delete the file!

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#516

Post by bayindirh »

dmitriid wrote: post #510
bayindirh wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's there: https://imgur.com/a/JVnaSjb Try pressing cmd+j on a finder window.

Where do you think I pressed Cmd+J?

Sorry, I misread your comment and didn't see the link. I thought you've said that the options just don't exist.

When I checked on my El Capitan Mac (an Early 2008, non unibody MacBook Pro), opening my home folder in icon view and opening view options shows almost the exact screenshot I've shared on my previous comment, including "use as default button".

Moreover, any view except tri-column view produces a view options menu with "use as defaults" button. It has to be a real folder. All My Files is a view and is subject to different treatment. It may be the same with tri-column view because parent-sibling is blurred with multi-level view.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#517

Post by FabHK »

Liquid_Fire wrote: post #375
FabHK wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) hit space for Quick Look, then scroll through? Or use column view. 2) home folder is listed on the Sidebar by default (its name is the user short name, ie its actual name). If that is not there for some reason, go to Finder -> Preferences -> Sidebar.

> home folder is listed on the Sidebar by default Definitely not on by default, at least on Big Sur. I had to Google how to get to it.

Oh, sorry. I must have set it up way back then, and pulled it forward with each migration to a new Mac.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#518

Post by michaelmrose »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #437
michaelmrose wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux rarely crashes. What it does do is handle low memory situations really badly. Simultaneously browsers have got way more memory hungry. I have left firefox overnight and had a tab decide it would like to eat all my memory. Linux does have an oom killer to deal with out of memory situations but it will kick in halfway to the heat death of the universe and you will reboot first. Oom looks just like a crash the UI…

> Distributions ought to ship with it. You mean install it by default? Even good old Debian stable ships with earlyoom (which I'm ofc using, since I saw it mentioned here once on HN).

Yes I mean install and enable by default. Look at the experience TulliusCicero had. People are extremely going to reasonably assume Linux freezes all the time not Firefox ate all my memory and Linux doesn't have a good story for handling oom.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#519

Post by prewett »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #160
handrous wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The filesystem is super confusing to tons of users. The reason people put crap all over their desktops is because they "lose" it if they put it anywhere else, while the desktop always stays "where it is". I don't think anyone's come up with a good solution to that problem, yet (Apple's isn't very good, and Windows' similar moves with its defaults aren't any better) and we're far enough into computers being common tha…

Believe it or not, the way the filesystem worked on the original Mac operating system was that things did stay where you put them. Open a disk and the folders on it could be put anywhere in that 2D space, and each folder's contents could similarly be anywhere in their virtual 2D space, and each disk/folder opened in its own window that even re-opened in exactly the same position with exactly the same size as when you…

I think if you leave Finder with the defaults (icon view) it still does this. I think if you change the view, say, to list view, Finder may apply that view to all folders you haven't specifically chosen a view type for. I think if you specifically choose a type (like icons for your a folder of images) it stays that way, but it's not clear to me exactly what happens.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#520

Post by rubyist5eva »

adolph wrote: post #268
rubyist5eva wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Window snapping exists in macOS, hold the option key while hovering over the zoom button and the snapping options pop up in a tooltip. Personally, I like that macOS is more or less unchanged. It’s familiar, and I don’t have to worry about big sweeping changes like Windows 8 or Gnome 3 and Gnome 40. For everything else there’s usually a tiny utility app you can install the gives you the functionality and runs in the b…

As long time Mac and relatively recent cross platform user, native window snapping is a joke in macOS made tolerable by Magnet. Option just changes the green button mode from new workspace (or whatever its called) to whole screen. In most Windows OSes the eponymous key plus an arrow will cycle the UI window through helpful positions of whole, half, quarter. The sibling comment challenges the parent regarding the impo…

> Option just changes the green button mode from new workspace (or whatever its called) to whole screen.

Hover for a second, a tooltip will pop-up for left-snap and right-snap. If you don’t hold Option it does the workspace version like iPad where it splits into a new workspace.

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