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How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

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Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#501

Post by dsego »

geraltofrivia wrote: post #452
philsnow wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the only possible thing I can think of that can explain this is that if you cut and then forget about the item, it just disappears eventually (reboot, copy other item, whatever). that's one thing when it's copied text from some web page, but quite another when it's a file or folder.

I'm not sure if other OS's do this. If you cut something on Windows Explorer (files or folders), they get somewhat greyed out. If you then paste them somewhere, they move. If you don't -- as in, you restart the computer, cut something else etc, the files stop being greyed out and return to their normal color. It's intuitive, and you don't lose your files.

Afaik, no OSs would delete the file once it's marked as cut. But there is a chance you accidentally move a file, which is worse than accidentally copying/duplicating one. In the latter case you just delete it but for moving you now need to figure out the original location.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#502

Post by socialdemocrat »

throwaddzuzxd wrote: post #205
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

The Finder is atrocious. It's the worst default macOS app and probably the worst program period I've ever used. It's been so dumbed down that it's basically unusable for anyone slightly experienced. - There's no way to create an empty file - There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) - There's no (?) way to keep everything consistently sorted and aligned - ~~Tags are useless and just take up space…

There are certainly issues with finder, but your complaints really just highlight that you are more experienced with the windows and not accustomed to Mac.

One of the problems addressing some of the issues you raised Is that you are not really explaining what you want to do. All you do is complain why Mac doesn’t work exactly like windows. Instead you should figure out what you want to do and explore and learn how that is accomplished on a Mac.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#503

Post by amatecha »

throwaddzuzxd wrote: post #205
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

The Finder is atrocious. It's the worst default macOS app and probably the worst program period I've ever used. It's been so dumbed down that it's basically unusable for anyone slightly experienced. - There's no way to create an empty file - There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) - There's no (?) way to keep everything consistently sorted and aligned - ~~Tags are useless and just take up space…

Parent folder: command-click on the title bar of the window, get a menu of the entire hierarchy above the current folder.

(or as others have already said, Command-UpArrow to open the parent folder)

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#504

Post by socialdemocrat »

tsimionescu wrote: post #385
bayindirh wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no way to create an empty file This is one of the features I never miss and don't use on any other DE (like KDE). I just open the app, create the file and save. Maybe it's just habit, but I personally doesn't find it as a needed feature. > There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) Just drag it where you want while pressing CMD? I know it's not cut but it prevents a lot of errors I think.…

> Just drag it where you want while pressing CMD? I know it's not cut but it prevents a lot of errors I think. That requires you to have both places visible on the screen at the same time. It's also a mouse+keyboard interaction, the least usbale kind of interaction.

No it doesn’t, Mac has spring loading for exactly this reason. This is a feature which has existed on Mac since before I OS X. Learn the system properly before assuming it is crap or simply ask.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#505

Post by sbtrct »

xiphias2 wrote: post #498
samatman wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think desktop GUIs can or should be 'intuitive'. They should be consistent, discoverable, and customizable. I give macOS full marks for consistency, and a passing grade for customizable, but it's hardly discoverable! I read these kinds of HN posts because of all the little tips and tricks I find. Operating systems used to come with a thick manual, and you could buy an even thicker "missing manual" book at the…

I don't find key bindings in MacOS consistent. The first thing I started missing from Windows is the F2 button for renaming things. I can do that everywhere in Windows. In Mac there's no keyboard shortcut for it, so probably I could add it in Finder, but it probably won't work in other file dialogs (or maybe yes).

The return key is functionally the same as F2 in Windows.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#506

Post by agustif »

FabHK wrote: post #185
BurningFrog wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used Macs since 1988, and had no idea this hidden feature existed! UI features don't just need to work well, they also need to be discoverable, or they might as well not exist. The old school Apple was good at that stuff. Recent decades, not so much. PS Thanks for teaching me this trick!

Quick Look is super useful indeed. Introduced 2007. Plugins make it even more useful (eg for json, torrents, etc.) https://github.com/sindresorhus/quick-look-plugins

Yes, I hate it's hard to setup .ts as TypeScript files, not video files for VLC, lol

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#507

Post by agustif »

lioeters wrote: post #157
agustif wrote: post #95

For the souls that have to suffer through the context switch of using both OS X and Windows or Linux at different workstations. htps://kinto.sh is a great open source app that let's you have the same keyboard commands and such in every OS, really recommend it!

Link is missing a "t". It redirects to: https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto

This is the repo I wanted to redirect to, yes

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#508

Post by amatecha »

dsego wrote: post #364
throwaddzuzxd wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one discover Cmd-Opt-V? Even with a right click after copying a file, there's no "Move" option. Your explanation makes sense but doesn't really seem supported with Finder's UX since the "Move" terminology doesn't exist anywhere

Usually the option key uncovers more available options in context menus. > How does one discover Cmd-Opt-V? Keyboard shortcuts are not usually meant to be "discovered" (how do you discover ctrl+x?). You can learn and memorize them. Although, there is a common theme with the option/alt modifier on the mac.

They are indeed meant to be discovered -- they are usually listed on menu items. You can hold down modifier keys like Option, Command, Ctrl and Shift to see how the menu item's text actually changes to reflect the action that will be taken if you press the respective key command. Very discoverable. I've never seen any other OS that does this (not that I look for it specifically). Also note when ellipses at the end of a menu item disappears when you are holding Option or whatever -- this means the action will be taken immediately, instead of asking the user to confirm (quick example is on "Empty Trash" in the Finder menu).

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#509

Post by bayindirh »

dmitriid wrote: post #496
mlindner wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can. View menu --> Show View Options. Customize to how you want it, and click the "use as defaults" button.

I've seen people mention it on the internets for the past few years. I've never had this button on any MacOS version. Currently on Catalina: https://imgur.com/a/D9Kbob1

It's there: https://imgur.com/a/JVnaSjb

Try pressing cmd+j on a finder window.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#510

Post by dmitriid »

bayindirh wrote: post #509
dmitriid wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen people mention it on the internets for the past few years. I've never had this button on any MacOS version. Currently on Catalina: https://imgur.com/a/D9Kbob1

It's there: https://imgur.com/a/JVnaSjb Try pressing cmd+j on a finder window.

Where do you think I pressed Cmd+J?
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