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Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

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Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#301

Post by petre »

def_true_false wrote: post #294
petre wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's still Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaidjan. Technically, the Caucasus region is still in Europe.

I've seen some consider Kazakhstan to be a part of Europe. I suspect the region stretches, depending on the speaker, far enough east to encompass the speaker's country, regardless of its location (but no further).

Kazahstan is in Central Asia probably because it's so big. Even their timezones are prefixed with Asia. The Caspian Sea and the Ural Mountains are the eastern limits of Europe, so everything on the Caspian's west bank is in Europe. Astrakhan is in Europe for instance.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#302

Post by aphextron »

ryanlol wrote: post #291
aphextron wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation. EU did the same thing in 2013 by forcing the Bolivian president's plane to land in an effort to catch Snowden. They have no moral or legal standing here whatsoever. https://euobserver.com/justice/120734

This wasn’t even remotely similar. Those EU countries didn’t allow the plane into their airspace, encouraging it to land in a third country to refuel. Belarus called in a fake bomb threat and used their fighter jets to force a passenger flight to land in their territory, not to mention the KGB officers on board making a scene. Outcome might be similar, but it’s specifically the tactics used which make this unacceptab…

>Those EU countries didn’t allow the plane into their airspace, encouraging it to land in a third country to refuel.

Seems like a trivial difference. Denying access to your airspace comes with the implicit threat of fighter interception.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#303

Post by jiofih »

vbezhenar wrote: post #139
thinkingemote wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that people can joke about the west in Russia but are people allowed to make jokes about their own government in Russia and in the associated eastern european states? Is it like China yet? I'm guessing not as there's no visible list of banned words and phrases, but we don't see (in HN) much criticism of Russia, Belarus from there, just attacks on the hypocrisy of the West. Do you see it headed towards China, w…

> I know that people can joke about the west in Russia but are people allowed to make jokes about their own government in Russia and in the associated eastern european states? Is it like China yet? Yes, plenty of people inside those countries do not like regime and openly discuss it on public internet websites. I don't know about China situation so I can't make a direct comparison. If you're very popular blogger and…

> If you're very popular blogger and you'll make direct insults to Putin (or any other person with high position), you might be fined or even jailed

> nobody hunts ordinary people

Unless they have something bad to say about the regime. These don’t add up, are bloggers not ordinary people? How can you be ok with this?

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#304

Post by ashtonkem »

aphextron wrote: post #282
motives wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that the EU has banned entire nations (such as Kazakhstan and others) from flying in EU airspace before for not meeting safety expectations. It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation.

>It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation. EU did the same thing in 2013 by forcing the Bolivian president's plane to land in an effort to catch Snowden. They have no moral or legal standing here whatsoever. https://euobserver.com/justice/120734

Maybe no moral standing, but they still have legal standing.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#305

Post by ashtonkem »

cblconfederate wrote: post #38
iso1631 wrote: post #12

But Ryanair havent https://www.flightradar24.com/RYR7BJ/27cf72bf FR3340 flying from Pafos, Cyprus to Tallin, Estonia, is about to cross from Ukraine into Belarus airspace A route avoiding Belarus would have added at 56 miles to the 1740 mile journey, about 3%. http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=pfo-tll,pfo-EPBP-tll

buy the "No kidnapping" package for an extra cost of $169.99/person

Also known as “don’t fly RyanAir”.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#306

Post by ddalex »

aphextron wrote: post #302
ryanlol wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn’t even remotely similar. Those EU countries didn’t allow the plane into their airspace, encouraging it to land in a third country to refuel. Belarus called in a fake bomb threat and used their fighter jets to force a passenger flight to land in their territory, not to mention the KGB officers on board making a scene. Outcome might be similar, but it’s specifically the tactics used which make this unacceptab…

>Those EU countries didn’t allow the plane into their airspace, encouraging it to land in a third country to refuel. Seems like a trivial difference. Denying access to your airspace comes with the implicit threat of fighter interception.

In the event that you are not a Russian troll, let me explain two key differences:

The Morales jet was warned ahead of time in a legal way, not intercepted and forced to land in an unintended destination.

No persons from the Morales jet were detained.

One is an lawful act (perhaps imoral in some way) , and one is an arbitrary act outside of any lawful framework . I hope this clears the confusion.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#307

Post by nzmsv »

thinkingemote wrote: post #31
golergka wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European diplomats being "strongly concerned" have long become a running joke here in Russia: https://twitter.com/ISEUConcerned I sincerely hope that this statement finally gets backed up by some decisive action that can put real pressure on these dictators, but I don't get my hopes up.

I know that people can joke about the west in Russia but are people allowed to make jokes about their own government in Russia and in the associated eastern european states? Is it like China yet? I'm guessing not as there's no visible list of banned words and phrases, but we don't see (in HN) much criticism of Russia, Belarus from there, just attacks on the hypocrisy of the West. Do you see it headed towards China, w…

I am very worried that the situation is headed towards China, or much worse.

And the main reason I am worried is that I can see no path towards a peaceful de-escalation. It is a foregone conclusion in the West that "Russia = bad" and any attempt to say anything counter to that narrative gets you labeled a pro-Kremlin troll. Let's see how deep in the grey this comments ends up for example.

Think Germany after WW1. Humiliated, defeated country. The people of such countries tend to follow leaders who promise to make them great again. When they do, they get further mockery and isolation. And I think it's been conclusively proven that this only breeds more radicalism.

But most will read this as "if you are not with us then you are against us" and turn up the intensity.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#308

Post by SpaceRaccoon »

ddalex wrote: post #306
aphextron wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Those EU countries didn’t allow the plane into their airspace, encouraging it to land in a third country to refuel. Seems like a trivial difference. Denying access to your airspace comes with the implicit threat of fighter interception.

In the event that you are not a Russian troll, let me explain two key differences: The Morales jet was warned ahead of time in a legal way, not intercepted and forced to land in an unintended destination. No persons from the Morales jet were detained. One is an lawful act (perhaps imoral in some way) , and one is an arbitrary act outside of any lawful framework . I hope this clears the confusion.

Morales plane was searched. If Snowden was on it, he would have been detained.

It's not that Belarus' actions are admissable. It's that the West is acting in a hypocritical way.

If Belarus had as much power as the US, they surely would have followed the same route and forced all the surrounding nations to close their airspace. The end result would be the same.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#309

Post by vbezhenar »

ceejayoz wrote: post #190
YarickR2 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, this is fine example of so-called "lie", plain and simple. You may mention it, and often it is being mentioned by all kinds of media. Things that really are frowned upon are highly controversial topics like alleged mass raping by the Red Army in Germany during WW2 . Other than that, no holds are barred, and things are discussed freely; I'd say hot topics are more frequent in Russian media than in the US one ; b…

It seems you're quibbling on which topics can't be talked about, not that there are some.

Many countries have forbidden topics. Try to question whether holocaust was real in EU.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#310

Post by vbezhenar »

jiofih wrote: post #303
vbezhenar wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know that people can joke about the west in Russia but are people allowed to make jokes about their own government in Russia and in the associated eastern european states? Is it like China yet? Yes, plenty of people inside those countries do not like regime and openly discuss it on public internet websites. I don't know about China situation so I can't make a direct comparison. If you're very popular blogger and…

> If you're very popular blogger and you'll make direct insults to Putin (or any other person with high position), you might be fined or even jailed > nobody hunts ordinary people Unless they have something bad to say about the regime. These don’t add up, are bloggers not ordinary people? How can you be ok with this?

> Unless they have something bad to say about the regime.

That's not true.

> are bloggers not ordinary people?

No, they're influencers.

> How can you be ok with this?

Why wouldn't I be ok with this? Nobody should be allowed to insult anyone.

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