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Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

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Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#291

Post by ryanlol »

aphextron wrote: post #282
motives wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that the EU has banned entire nations (such as Kazakhstan and others) from flying in EU airspace before for not meeting safety expectations. It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation.

>It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation. EU did the same thing in 2013 by forcing the Bolivian president's plane to land in an effort to catch Snowden. They have no moral or legal standing here whatsoever. https://euobserver.com/justice/120734

This wasn’t even remotely similar.

Those EU countries didn’t allow the plane into their airspace, encouraging it to land in a third country to refuel.

Belarus called in a fake bomb threat and used their fighter jets to force a passenger flight to land in their territory, not to mention the KGB officers on board making a scene.

Outcome might be similar, but it’s specifically the tactics used which make this unacceptable.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#292

Post by def_true_false »

aphextron wrote: post #282
motives wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that the EU has banned entire nations (such as Kazakhstan and others) from flying in EU airspace before for not meeting safety expectations. It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation.

>It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation. EU did the same thing in 2013 by forcing the Bolivian president's plane to land in an effort to catch Snowden. They have no moral or legal standing here whatsoever. https://euobserver.com/justice/120734

They had a bunch of plain clothes operatives follow a guy onto a public flight, fake a bomb threat and scramble jets to get the plane to land?

All this whataboutism isn't really bringing much to the discussion here...

What next, the West can't complain about human rights violations in HK or Mongolia just because US police shot some dude (again)?

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#293

Post by def_true_false »

YarickR2 wrote: post #134
kofejnik wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the Chinese you can tell when they cannot even refer to, say or admit certain things: e.g. massacres. But they would say "we are not being censored" It is exactly the same in Russia, you may not mention certain historical facts at all, e.g. Germany-USSR cooperation during 1939-1941

Well, this is fine example of so-called "lie", plain and simple. You may mention it, and often it is being mentioned by all kinds of media. Things that really are frowned upon are highly controversial topics like alleged mass raping by the Red Army in Germany during WW2 . Other than that, no holds are barred, and things are discussed freely; I'd say hot topics are more frequent in Russian media than in the US one ; b…

Alleged?

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#294

Post by def_true_false »

petre wrote: post #277
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belarus aside, which ones? Because I can't think of any. Seriously, it's been over thirty years since the end of Cold War and people still think there are some eastern European states associated with Russia... Almost all of them are in the EU now with the notable exception of Ukraine which is in a state of de facto war with Russia. Even Lukashenko has a bitter-sweet relationship with Putin.

There's still Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaidjan. Technically, the Caucasus region is still in Europe.

I've seen some consider Kazakhstan to be a part of Europe. I suspect the region stretches, depending on the speaker, far enough east to encompass the speaker's country, regardless of its location (but no further).

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#295

Post by dragonwriter »

EdTsft wrote: post #278
elliekelly wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Cuba? North Korea? Iran? They’ve been sanctioned for decades with devastating human consequences and little to no sign of those sanctions spurring any meaningful change.

Only the US sanctioned Cuba and while it was pretty harmful, they were still able to trade with most other countries. North Korea has China right next door as a big trade partner, and can trade with many non-US countries as well. As for Iran, from what I can tell UN sanctions really only started to ramp up in the 2010s and those did have an effect in getting Iran to suspend its nuclear program. Edit: But to be clear,…

> Only the US sanctioned Cuba and while it was pretty harmful, they were still able to trade with most other countries.

There were considerable limits (particularly on foreign investment in Cuba) because parts of the US sanctions regime include retaliatory sanctions on entities making use of certain property in Cuba (some of these were suspended for a while, but restored under Trump in 2017.)

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#297

Post by szatkus »

ljf wrote: post #7
majke wrote: post #6

Apart from fuel prices, is there any economic impact? Do air carriers pay anything to the countries they fly over? (dunno, covering ATC costs?)

https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-charge-foreign-air... Yes it costs to fly through a country's airspace.

Huh? Why US airspace is so extended?

I found a map for that https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ab...

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#298

Post by nyolfen »

def_true_false wrote: post #292
aphextron wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation. EU did the same thing in 2013 by forcing the Bolivian president's plane to land in an effort to catch Snowden. They have no moral or legal standing here whatsoever. https://euobserver.com/justice/120734

They had a bunch of plain clothes operatives follow a guy onto a public flight, fake a bomb threat and scramble jets to get the plane to land? All this whataboutism isn't really bringing much to the discussion here... What next, the West can't complain about human rights violations in HK or Mongolia just because US police shot some dude (again)?

“whataboutism” is a thought-terminating cliche — it’s a directly analogous situation that shows that there are no principles or rule-based order, only power. you have the power to get away with doing this, or you don’t; lofty rhetoric is a propaganda measure

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#299

Post by nzmsv »

kofejnik wrote: post #196
YarickR2 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, this is fine example of so-called "lie", plain and simple. You may mention it, and often it is being mentioned by all kinds of media. Things that really are frowned upon are highly controversial topics like alleged mass raping by the Red Army in Germany during WW2 . Other than that, no holds are barred, and things are discussed freely; I'd say hot topics are more frequent in Russian media than in the US one ; b…

if you're still in Russia, try posting some photos of 1939 Brest-Litovsk parade on your VK page, we'll watch from afar how it goes for you

Like this? https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Парад_вермахта_перед_частями_Р...

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#300

Post by beebeepka »

def_true_false wrote: post #292
aphextron wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation. EU did the same thing in 2013 by forcing the Bolivian president's plane to land in an effort to catch Snowden. They have no moral or legal standing here whatsoever. https://euobserver.com/justice/120734

They had a bunch of plain clothes operatives follow a guy onto a public flight, fake a bomb threat and scramble jets to get the plane to land? All this whataboutism isn't really bringing much to the discussion here... What next, the West can't complain about human rights violations in HK or Mongolia just because US police shot some dude (again)?

Nice red herring. US police executing black people is an internal problem. What we really care about are the bombs, the pillaging, the coups... The US has no moral high ground. Never had it in the first place.
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