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Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#151

Post by meowface »

IneffablePigeon wrote: post #148
meowface wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the article title should be "Drug dealer caught by online photo that revealed fingerprints". That's the interesting and unexpected part, here. I didn't really know that could be done and hadn't heard of it before; but I suppose it's not too surprising given the prevalence of high-resolution phone cameras, now. I'm guessing what happened was that they were monitoring an anonymous chat group on this EncroChat app…

That's not the full image. The full image ( https://twitter.com/MerseyPolice/status/1395783747115618306 ) has a lot of detail in the palm area - enough to get a match I'd assume, if they have his full palm print on file. Even if it's not a super high probability match, it could have been enough to give them a name and find more evidence. I don't buy that they'd make up the story _and then tweet proudly about it_, esp…

Thanks; makes sense.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#152

Post by jjeaff »

periheli0n wrote: post #126
danbruc wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can remove blur from images with [blind] deconvolution. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_deconvolution

It wouldn’t even be blind deconvolution since they can use the cheese label as ground truth.

I wouldn't think so, since the level of blur is less or non-existent on the label. In infinitely long focal length, everything is the same level of focus.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#153

Post by dokem »

Threeve303 wrote: post #6

In reality, the police were likely violating his rights and doing some good old fashioned parallel construction. They had his prints from his products, knew who he was already, waited until they watched him post a picture of cheese, then claimed it was only the picture that caused him to be caught. This is a clear change in police methods, enabled by tech, and an abuse of your constitutional rights if this was a U.S.…

I'm not following, of course they would have to have his fingerprints also somewhere else.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#154

Post by LatteLazy »

nojokes wrote: post #132
bobthepanda wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Railing against the ECHR is arguably one of the things that sparked Brexit.

Can you elaborate this a little?

We're sick of having rights and we've had enough of EU monsters telling us we can't all die from drinking posion. What is this, Nazi Germany?

- standard brexiteer position despite the ECHRs not actually being an EU body.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#155

Post by p_j_w »

meowface wrote: post #112
40four wrote: post #96

I don’t get it. I’m mostly very skeptical of the claim of making a positive fingerprint ID through a picture. Has anyone ever heard of this before? Fingerprints are known to be very unreliable and subjective. I’m not convinced this is actually what happened, and not just a cute story pushed by the British law enforcement. Edit: I did find a couple articles talking about technique of lifting prints from photographs, s…

Yeah, the article title should be "Drug dealer caught by online photo that revealed fingerprints". That's the interesting and unexpected part, here. I didn't really know that could be done and hadn't heard of it before; but I suppose it's not too surprising given the prevalence of high-resolution phone cameras, now. I'm guessing what happened was that they were monitoring an anonymous chat group on this EncroChat app…

>I disagree with the (current) top post in this thread saying it's "likely parallel construction". It could be, but the claimed story also sounds pretty plausible

Others have pointed out that this happened in the UK, so it's probably not parallel construction anyways. Still, I wanted to get this out there: isn't the claimed story being plausible a pretty important part of parallel construction? If you needed parallel construction for your evidence to not be thrown out of court, then if the story of how you obtained it isn't plausible, it seems likely that it'll get thrown out anyways.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#156

Post by TheRealPomax »

in the category "we had nothing else to write, the title pretty much has all the information". There's no reason to even click the link, it's not going to tell you anything about how we got from A to B other than "they looked at the fingerprints of the hand in the photo".

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#157

Post by periheli0n »

jjeaff wrote: post #152
periheli0n wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn’t even be blind deconvolution since they can use the cheese label as ground truth.

I wouldn't think so, since the level of blur is less or non-existent on the label. In infinitely long focal length, everything is the same level of focus.

Maybe it’s just me, but I tend to see a lot of motion blur on that label, an amount that could easily account for the blur on the fingertip, too. Given the ultra-short focal length of mobile cameras and the large focal depth that comes with it I would expect very little out-of-plane blur on the fingertips.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#158

Post by toomanybeersies »

pc86 wrote: post #45
PeterisP wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO the concept of "parallel construction" is mostly an USA specific thing because USA legal doctrine is heavy on fourth amendment application and "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine that can make evidence inadmissible depending on how it was obtained. But all those things and rights are specific to USA, not in general, and not even for other common law countries. As far as I understand, such "fruit of the poison…

I agree with you on the legal doctrine piece, but most in the US (myself included) would say that the US Constitution doesn't grant anybody any rights. It codified inalienable rights that exist for all people merely by virtue of their existence. Every person has the right to speak their mind, to defend themselves, to not incriminate themselves, etc. etc. with all the caveats and potential nullifications that accompan…

> but most in the US (myself included) would say that the US Constitution doesn't grant anybody any rights. It codified inalienable rights that exist for all people merely by virtue of their existence

And many outside the USA would disagree with your position that a 200 year old document, written in part by slave owners, is the sole source of truth of our inalienable rights.

I for one disagree with the concept of immutable, codified constitutions entirely. I grew up in New Zealand, a country with no codified constitution, and yet somehow a country with a far better track record in human rights than the USA.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#159

Post by rootsudo »

PeterisP wrote: post #14
Threeve303 wrote: post #6

In reality, the police were likely violating his rights and doing some good old fashioned parallel construction. They had his prints from his products, knew who he was already, waited until they watched him post a picture of cheese, then claimed it was only the picture that caused him to be caught. This is a clear change in police methods, enabled by tech, and an abuse of your constitutional rights if this was a U.S.…

IMHO the concept of "parallel construction" is mostly an USA specific thing because USA legal doctrine is heavy on fourth amendment application and "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine that can make evidence inadmissible depending on how it was obtained. But all those things and rights are specific to USA, not in general, and not even for other common law countries. As far as I understand, such "fruit of the poison…

Great explanation, I understood parallel construction and chain of custody but did not know it was due to "fruit of the poisonous tree."

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#160

Post by sumtechguy »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #87
benjohnson wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, the Bill of Rights was considered redundant by many people - and some thought that enumerating the rights line by line was dangerously limiting them.

Not sure where, but i heard once that the constitution was actually only intended to be a temporary document until a more reasonable draft could be hammered out. Even its authors didn't imagine it would still be relevant 200 years later.

The first one was more temporary while they figured out what they had just did. (things like how do we pay the bills)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation

That is why the one we are under is basically the 2nd revision of that.

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