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Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#81

Post by SyzygistSix »

pjc50 wrote: post #44
tux1968 wrote: post #7

This is a very good example of showing that decentralized anonymous communication channels of any type are not enough to ensure free speech. I'm not saying that this particular example has anything to do with free speech, but it does show that you can not speak freely even over encrypted anonymous channels. You can still easily be doxed. We can not rely on any technology to ensure freedom of speech. We need to engend…

Are you arguing that arranging to commit a crime is protected speech? I don't think that one will fly anywhere, even in the US, let alone in the UK with no constitutional protection only the much weaker ECHR one.

That's pretty much every protest ever. You would make organizing protests against marijuana laws or laws against homosexual behavior illegal?

Moxie Marlinspike has argued that it is important to be able to break the law and that perfect surveillance means the end of making social progress in a civil manner.

https://www.metafilter.com/161351/I-think-it-should-actually...

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#82

Post by xtracto »

tux1968 wrote: post #7

This is a very good example of showing that decentralized anonymous communication channels of any type are not enough to ensure free speech. I'm not saying that this particular example has anything to do with free speech, but it does show that you can not speak freely even over encrypted anonymous channels. You can still easily be doxed. We can not rely on any technology to ensure freedom of speech. We need to engend…

You dont need any sort of encryption to preserve anonymity. You just need a fraction of a clue.

Look at Satoshi Nakamoto. The entity posted in public forums and had conversations in the public view for so long. He is presumably one of the most infamous subjects in the last 10 years an nobody has managed to doxx him

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#83

Post by xtracto »

aritmo wrote: post #2

There is some heavy editorializig by the BBC here. As a cheese lover, the cheese was fine. That person just posted a photo that also included their fingertips.

I think the article is originally from Echo, which is Liverpool's local newspaper. Crazy the number of people that have been arrested in that city.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#84

Post by tux1968 »

xtracto wrote: post #82
tux1968 wrote: post #7

This is a very good example of showing that decentralized anonymous communication channels of any type are not enough to ensure free speech. I'm not saying that this particular example has anything to do with free speech, but it does show that you can not speak freely even over encrypted anonymous channels. You can still easily be doxed. We can not rely on any technology to ensure freedom of speech. We need to engend…

You dont need any sort of encryption to preserve anonymity. You just need a fraction of a clue. Look at Satoshi Nakamoto. The entity posted in public forums and had conversations in the public view for so long. He is presumably one of the most infamous subjects in the last 10 years an nobody has managed to doxx him

Some areas of conversation require disclosing who you are. Freedom of speech means being able to say you don't agree with your town council for instance. Thus revealing much about yourself.

Yes you can censor yourself, hide facts, and remain anonymous.. but you can not do so across the entire spectrum of discourse, only in limited domains.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#85

Post by refurb »

Spooky23 wrote: post #67
pc86 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on the legal doctrine piece, but most in the US (myself included) would say that the US Constitution doesn't grant anybody any rights. It codified inalienable rights that exist for all people merely by virtue of their existence. Every person has the right to speak their mind, to defend themselves, to not incriminate themselves, etc. etc. with all the caveats and potential nullifications that accompan…

That's all good for the origin story but obviously lacks impact in reality. The "bug" in the system is that when you talk about inalienable rights inherent by the grace of god or the creator is that god doesn't write shit down. The canonical texts have been edited by various entities for thousand of years in some cases. So you're dependent on the interpretation of others. Usually people's understanding of God's will…

You’re interpreting it way too literally. The Declaration of Independence isn’t saying “god said X”, it’s declaring that everyone had these rights, not based on the govt giving it to them, but that they always had them and the US govt is simply recognizing that. There is no religious document one needs to refer back to.

I think it’s actually a genius way of describing rights. It’s the same way one might say that slavery ended not because the govt decided to give slaves rights (the government doesn’t have that power), but rather that they always had them and the govt simply stopped denying their rights.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#86

Post by iNic »

ChaitanyaSai wrote: post #63

Here's a fun little game. Try and get GPT3 to reconstruct the story, based on the headline (and maybe just a wee nudge). Here's one attempt: ===== Story of the day: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer’s downfall “In an awe-inspiring display of the power of the internet, police in Liverpool have arrested a drug dealer in connection with an online cheese sale. A 28-year-old man has been charged with controlled…

I love how bad GPT-3 is at logical inference:

> "This is actually really interesting, the cheese is curved towards the bottom (in the pic) but if you look at the bag it’s flat. It’s on a bag, so the cheese is obviously curved due to the weight of the block. This is a new one to me, I can’t wait to hear the excuse."

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#87

Post by FridayoLeary »

benjohnson wrote: post #72
sjy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the Declaration of Independence. The Constitution came 11 years later (and did not, even then, include the Bill of Rights).

As I understand it, the Bill of Rights was considered redundant by many people - and some thought that enumerating the rights line by line was dangerously limiting them.

Not sure where, but i heard once that the constitution was actually only intended to be a temporary document until a more reasonable draft could be hammered out. Even its authors didn't imagine it would still be relevant 200 years later.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#88

Post by Spooky23 »

refurb wrote: post #85
Spooky23 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all good for the origin story but obviously lacks impact in reality. The "bug" in the system is that when you talk about inalienable rights inherent by the grace of god or the creator is that god doesn't write shit down. The canonical texts have been edited by various entities for thousand of years in some cases. So you're dependent on the interpretation of others. Usually people's understanding of God's will…

You’re interpreting it way too literally. The Declaration of Independence isn’t saying “god said X”, it’s declaring that everyone had these rights, not based on the govt giving it to them, but that they always had them and the US govt is simply recognizing that. There is no religious document one needs to refer back to. I think it’s actually a genius way of describing rights. It’s the same way one might say that slav…

> I think it’s actually a genius way of describing rights.

In context, it absolutely is.

Remember that many of the key constitutional framers were believers in deism, and believed in god in the context of a creator, but not as an omnipresent supernatural being.

Outside of that context, things get difficult. Looking beyond the slavery example, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts was governed in the early years of the republic as compared to New York or Pennsylvania. It demonstrates the differences in how context as defined by religion matters.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#89

Post by swarnie_ »

cm2187 wrote: post #79
PeterisP wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO the concept of "parallel construction" is mostly an USA specific thing because USA legal doctrine is heavy on fourth amendment application and "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine that can make evidence inadmissible depending on how it was obtained. But all those things and rights are specific to USA, not in general, and not even for other common law countries. As far as I understand, such "fruit of the poison…

Fruit of the poisonous tree assumes that the real way they identified the target was through illegal means. It doesn't have to. Could be an anonymous tip, a suspicion from the police, etc.

Chap got 13 years, considering how lenient our sentencing usually is i can only assume he was moving massive quantities. Couldn't have gone unnoticed even in a place like Liverpool.

Re: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer's downfall

#90

Post by ChaitanyaSai »

iNic wrote: post #86
ChaitanyaSai wrote: post #63

Here's a fun little game. Try and get GPT3 to reconstruct the story, based on the headline (and maybe just a wee nudge). Here's one attempt: ===== Story of the day: Cheese photo leads to Liverpool drug dealer’s downfall “In an awe-inspiring display of the power of the internet, police in Liverpool have arrested a drug dealer in connection with an online cheese sale. A 28-year-old man has been charged with controlled…

I love how bad GPT-3 is at logical inference: > "This is actually really interesting, the cheese is curved towards the bottom (in the pic) but if you look at the bag it’s flat. It’s on a bag, so the cheese is obviously curved due to the weight of the block. This is a new one to me, I can’t wait to hear the excuse."

It's fascinating that it mimics linguistic structure exceptionally well, but not semantic structure and sequence. Reminds me of how people with Wernicke's aphasia can create long sentences that are grammatically alright, but nonsensical. Not quite the same, but there's an interesting limitation on the semantic side, which is almost masked by a truly world-class linguistic ability. I continue to be in awe of GPTS's ability to mimic any style and marry into to pretty much any kind of content.
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