Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

brookings.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 188 posts

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#81

Post by metalliqaz »

vmception wrote: post #33
metalliqaz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

misled how? "man dies after impact with car" is rightly reported as "man booked for manslaughter after hit-and-run" the technical details are perhaps not as important than the criminality that transpired

following the analogy, this article and many others like it conflate offshore with criminality while occasionally saying "although use of licensed banks in these countries is not illegal [in the host country and the client's country of residence]" and then glossing over that for the rest of the research paper, never quantifying any use case even with leaked data, all to steer your emotions. The internet is a mirror,…

it is not technically criminal but deeply unfair. that's what people care about

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#83

Post by eloff »

the_optimist wrote: post #39
internetslave wrote: post #13

I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.

You’ll never see rich people argue for a wealth tax, but they sure as hell will parade demanding that we raise taxes on income of the service class.

That's factually incorrect. It's easy to make a list of rich people specifically saying tax the rich more.

Leaving that aside, the 1% pay 38.5% of taxes, which seems quite fair as is. We already tax the rich quite heavily.

I'd rather the focus be on compliance. Close the loopholes and catch the tax evaders.

Wealth taxes, if you look at examples elsewhere both present and historically, are hard to do well. I worry the government is not sufficiently competent ( now or in the future) to implement it correctly and it does more harm than good. It's very easy to drive capital offshore and take the potential investment and job creation with it.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#84

Post by clucas »

vmception wrote: post #33
metalliqaz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

misled how? "man dies after impact with car" is rightly reported as "man booked for manslaughter after hit-and-run" the technical details are perhaps not as important than the criminality that transpired

following the analogy, this article and many others like it conflate offshore with criminality while occasionally saying "although use of licensed banks in these countries is not illegal [in the host country and the client's country of residence]" and then glossing over that for the rest of the research paper, never quantifying any use case even with leaked data, all to steer your emotions. The internet is a mirror,…

You're saying "doing business with these banks is not illegal, so there's nothing to be concerned about."

The author is saying "doing business with these banks is not illegal, but they lack certain reporting requirements that have been very helpful in revealing illegality, and we should be concerned about that."

The author has given multiple reasons and cited other studies showing why we should be concerned. At this point, I think the burden of proof is on you to explain why the author's concerns are unfounded. Why do you think beneficial ownership registries and similar reporting requirements are not needed?

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#85

Post by vmception »

clucas wrote: post #84
vmception wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

following the analogy, this article and many others like it conflate offshore with criminality while occasionally saying "although use of licensed banks in these countries is not illegal [in the host country and the client's country of residence]" and then glossing over that for the rest of the research paper, never quantifying any use case even with leaked data, all to steer your emotions. The internet is a mirror,…

You're saying "doing business with these banks is not illegal, so there's nothing to be concerned about." The author is saying "doing business with these banks is not illegal, but they lack certain reporting requirements that have been very helpful in revealing illegality, and we should be concerned about that." The author has given multiple reasons and cited other studies showing why we should be concerned. At this…

I haven't addressed the author so my role isn't to make an opinion on their conclusions, only the wording. For example “Evidence” is used in the title as opposed to “Transparency Report” or “Data from server breach”, or any of my other working titles which would be used for literally any other industry.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#86

Post by [deleted] »

slifin wrote: post #19
internetslave wrote: post #13

I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.

I have a conspiracy theory that Forbes created the rich list Which intentionally does not have despots oligarchs or royals to skew the conversation to a business matter which can get lost in the left/right divide

[deleted]

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#87

Post by vmception »

metalliqaz wrote: post #81
vmception wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

following the analogy, this article and many others like it conflate offshore with criminality while occasionally saying "although use of licensed banks in these countries is not illegal [in the host country and the client's country of residence]" and then glossing over that for the rest of the research paper, never quantifying any use case even with leaked data, all to steer your emotions. The internet is a mirror,…

it is not technically criminal but deeply unfair. that's what people care about

I can see that perspective

From my view the absurdity is that people are concerned about why they arent being hosed equally by their own government’s revenue efforts instead of why they are being hosed at all

This leads to a greater absurdity of demanding that another country - that has a balanced budget - take money that it doesnt need by taxing its customers and being mad when they say no.

This requires a very special kind of hubris that I think people need to 1) recognize they have bought into 2) recognize that their neighbors don't subscribe to that train of thought and have been operating by a much more effective set of rules. So whatever you’ve been told is probably just a lie if it bothers you that this is usually legal.

I'm not saying it is practical for their own country to balance their budget, or that their own country and citizens/representatives have a consensus mechanism for having a more fair revenue system whether by taxation or otherwise. I am saying that has nothing to do with countries that have figured out how to fund themselves by offering financial services, or the people that use them.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#88

Post by geggam »

eloff wrote: post #83
the_optimist wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll never see rich people argue for a wealth tax, but they sure as hell will parade demanding that we raise taxes on income of the service class.

That's factually incorrect. It's easy to make a list of rich people specifically saying tax the rich more. Leaving that aside, the 1% pay 38.5% of taxes, which seems quite fair as is. We already tax the rich quite heavily. I'd rather the focus be on compliance. Close the loopholes and catch the tax evaders. Wealth taxes, if you look at examples elsewhere both present and historically, are hard to do well. I worry the…

> Leaving that aside, the 1% pay 38.5% of taxes, which seems quite fair as is. We already tax the rich quite heavily.

Given the fact the top 1% hold 43% of the global wealth I think they aren't paying their fair share...

There is no need for someone to have 100 billion dollars they an struggle by with 10 billion easy enough .. or even 1 billion

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/top-1-percent-of-household...

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#89

Post by sumtechguy »

supernova87a wrote: post #79

Can someone ELI5, what entities or convoluted mechanisms or businesses do very rich people create / have access to that they can minimize taxes, which the rest of us simply cannot take advantage of here in regular life?

You can have the same tools but not necessarily the same connections. The issue is usually capital. Most people do not have it.

For example take Paris Hilton. When she had her DUI a few years ago her 500k car got repo'd. Wah? She stopped making payments on it. Payments?! Because she probably had it going through some business expense structure and was probably literally writing off the interest and payments. More than likely the original money was borrowed against an existing capital asset. If the sale price of the car did not make up the difference they had to come up with whatever cash was left over. Like most repos. But in this case it was a fairly flashy car that held its value decently well. So they probably took a small loss. But there was never any real risk to owning it.

Think of getting a HELEOC but running everything through that type of borrowing structure. But since you 'know a guy' you get the super awesome low interest rates. Which are business expenses. That flashy show of hers was a way to write a bunch of stuff off. Everything is an expense and a way to write it off your taxes. In some cases it does not even affect your taxes if you bury it in another company that is doing something similar that you control 100% of and just happens to be in a lower tax bracket. But gave you a sweetheart deal of leasing a yacht for a small amount per year for being such a good customer!

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#90

Post by eloff »

geggam wrote: post #88
eloff wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's factually incorrect. It's easy to make a list of rich people specifically saying tax the rich more. Leaving that aside, the 1% pay 38.5% of taxes, which seems quite fair as is. We already tax the rich quite heavily. I'd rather the focus be on compliance. Close the loopholes and catch the tax evaders. Wealth taxes, if you look at examples elsewhere both present and historically, are hard to do well. I worry the…

> Leaving that aside, the 1% pay 38.5% of taxes, which seems quite fair as is. We already tax the rich quite heavily. Given the fact the top 1% hold 43% of the global wealth I think they aren't paying their fair share... There is no need for someone to have 100 billion dollars they an struggle by with 10 billion easy enough .. or even 1 billion https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/top-1-percent-of-household...

Don't compare global wealth to share of US taxes. That makes no sense.
Post reply on HN