I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…
How Intuitive Are Macs Really?
381–390 of 638 posts
Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?
#382Recent M1 user here - I had a PowerPC mac back in the Leopard/Tiger days. I thought OSx would have come on leaps and bounds since then. It's....more or less unchanged. As well as this crazy installer thing, there's quite a bit about Macs that just seems off.. My list of "things that don't seem right" as a long term Windows/ChromeOS user - Window snapping isn't built in outside of fullscreen mode (seriously?!) - Sleep…
This can be improved a bit by forcing the Mac to "hibernate" instead of suspend when you put it to sleep:
https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/51729
By default, it would hibernate only after some time.
You can also disable the "Power Nap" checkbox on Settings > Battery.
EDIT: Typo
Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
Window snapping exists in macOS, hold the option key while hovering over the zoom button and the snapping options pop up in a tooltip. Personally, I like that macOS is more or less unchanged. It’s familiar, and I don’t have to worry about big sweeping changes like Windows 8 or Gnome 3 and Gnome 40. For everything else there’s usually a tiny utility app you can install the gives you the functionality and runs in the b…
As long time Mac and relatively recent cross platform user, native window snapping is a joke in macOS made tolerable by Magnet. Option just changes the green button mode from new workspace (or whatever its called) to whole screen. In most Windows OSes the eponymous key plus an arrow will cycle the UI window through helpful positions of whole, half, quarter. The sibling comment challenges the parent regarding the impo…
Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?
#384I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…
It's a holdover from two different earlier eras.
First, you have everything up to about 1998, which covers MacOS Classic through Mac OS 8, and Windows up through Win98. At the beginning of this period, when "PC" meant MS-DOS, the usability difference was obviously stark. But even in GUI era of PCs, System 7 compared favorably with Windows 3.1, and Mac OS 8 compared favorably with Windows 95.
Then Windows 98 and Mac OS 9 came out, and I'd say that things at least evened up. All else being equal, OS 9's GUI was still simpler and more intuitive, to my taste, but all else was not equal. Windows 9x had memory protection and pre-emptive multitasking, and Mac OS Classic didn't, and there were issues with system extensions and stability in Mac OS that I personally felt were more troublesome than Windows's famous BSOD problem during that era. This opinion could be a product of my experience working tech support at the time. BSOD was usually fixed by cursing profusely while rebooting. System extension conflicts were fixed at great physical and emotional cost to the person doing the fixing.
So I'd say Windows was generally easier to use than Macs for a while, until OS X eventually came into its own. It's harder to place a start time on this, but let's say 2002ish, with the release of Jaguar. And then there's been a sort of long slow decline as they clutter up the GUI, while at the same time Microsoft was putting serious work into cleaning things up. I'm not sure if the switch happened during the Windows 7 era or the Windows 10 era, but yeah, I'd definitely say I find Windows easier to use nowadays.
Personally, the main thing keeping me on Macs nowadays is frankly just the touchpad, to which I seem to be addicted.
Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Finder is atrocious. It's the worst default macOS app and probably the worst program period I've ever used. It's been so dumbed down that it's basically unusable for anyone slightly experienced. - There's no way to create an empty file - There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) - There's no (?) way to keep everything consistently sorted and aligned - ~~Tags are useless and just take up space…
> There's no way to create an empty file This is one of the features I never miss and don't use on any other DE (like KDE). I just open the app, create the file and save. Maybe it's just habit, but I personally doesn't find it as a needed feature. > There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) Just drag it where you want while pressing CMD? I know it's not cut but it prevents a lot of errors I think.…
That requires you to have both places visible on the screen at the same time. It's also a mouse+keyboard interaction, the least usbale kind of interaction.
Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't you have to close the document first?
Not on Linux
I could move the file, but this broke the association with the open document. I saved to ~/test.txt, then moved it to ~/Documents/test.txt, and saved a second time. The second time I saved it, it saved the file to ~/test.txt, which is incorrect and useless. Now I have two files, but no action I took as a user should have created two files--moving a file should not create a second copy, and saving an open file should not have created a second copy, so why should moving and saving create a second copy?
On Windows, you typically get an error message, because you can't move an open file. (Not all applications keep the file open, so this doesn't always happen.) Personally, I think that enforcing exclusive locks is the worst, most significant design flaw in the entire history of the Windows operating system.
Only on macOS do you get the nice, expected behavior... it does not matter if you move a file while it is open in an application. When a file is open in an application, the open file is associated with the file, not with the pathname. You can rename a file in the Finder or reorganize a bunch of files in the Finder (or do the same in the terminal) and it does not matter whether those files are open in any applications. You can reorganize files in the Finder, and then when you save open documents, they save to the new location, not the old one. If you rename files in the Finder or rename a bunch of files with a script in the terminal, the windows for open documents you renamed will update their titles to match the new names.
The problem here is that (opinion time) the standard filesystem API is a really terrible interface. What you want is some way to create durable references to files. File handles can do that, but only while your application is open. Paths can do it while your application is closed, but the reference is lost if you move the file. On macOS, there's a standard API which provides something more persistent than file handles and more durable than paths. I think they're called "bookmarks" now, but they used to be called "aliases".
Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Finder is atrocious. It's the worst default macOS app and probably the worst program period I've ever used. It's been so dumbed down that it's basically unusable for anyone slightly experienced. - There's no way to create an empty file - There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) - There's no (?) way to keep everything consistently sorted and aligned - ~~Tags are useless and just take up space…
FYI you can do cut in Mac. Do Cmd-C to copy and the Cmd-Option-V to cut-paste. For whatever reason, Windows has cut attached to selecting the file, but Mac has it attached to pasting the file.
(Sure, under the hood nothing different happens at the beginning, but semantically I think Windows makes sense here)
Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does one discover Cmd-Opt-V? Even with a right click after copying a file, there's no "Move" option. Your explanation makes sense but doesn't really seem supported with Finder's UX since the "Move" terminology doesn't exist anywhere
Usually the option key uncovers more available options in context menus. > How does one discover Cmd-Opt-V? Keyboard shortcuts are not usually meant to be "discovered" (how do you discover ctrl+x?). You can learn and memorize them. Although, there is a common theme with the option/alt modifier on the mac.
[1] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/keyboard-shortcuts...
Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?
#389Here's AppStore mini-review: https://grumpy.website/post/0RsaxCu3P
"Get 15 people, put them in 15 different offices with no communication between them, set them to work on one feature at a time. You will get something very similar to the App Store."
Here's Apple Music review (spoiler: swearing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE8ZikfrpFU