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How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

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Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#231

Post by michaelmrose »

dagw wrote: post #200
amelius wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, and Linux seems to be by far the least stable. I have apps freezing the whole damn computer way more often there than the other two. How often is that? What hardware do you run it on? What distro do you use?

Not OP, but I've noticed the same with Linux over the past year or two. Stability has taken a distinct dive for the worse. Two different Ryzen APU based computers I've built running whatever Ubuntu happened to be the latest. Tried both KDE and XFCE and they freeze about 1-2 times a week. The computers haven't crashed and if you ssh in everything seems to be running fine, but mouse/keyboard/screen are completely froze…

When you ssh in is memory nearly exhausted because firefox or Chrome have decided to eat all your memory?

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#232

Post by philliphaydon »

Popegaf wrote: post #189

They aren't. The first time using it about 10 years ago was confusing: Single button mouse --> no instructions, can't find out how to right click Double click on window --> fullscreen; uh... move mouse around edges to find how to get back to other windows Drag window to side of the screen to split window --> nothing; search the application menu --> nothing; Cmd+Right? --> nothing; oook, I have to actually resize ever…

> Single button mouse --> no instructions, can't find out how to right click

I can’t stand OSX, but I’m pretty proficient. I think the right click is a symptom of you being so used to Windows or linux.

The average user probably never needs to right click. I bought my mum a MacBook Air and she’s never needed to right click in the 4-5 years of owning it.

I think it’s hidden for good reason. She also never asks if she should right or left click. Cos the mouse has 1 button.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#233

Post by rubyist5eva »

turkeywelder wrote: post #203

Recent M1 user here - I had a PowerPC mac back in the Leopard/Tiger days. I thought OSx would have come on leaps and bounds since then. It's....more or less unchanged. As well as this crazy installer thing, there's quite a bit about Macs that just seems off.. My list of "things that don't seem right" as a long term Windows/ChromeOS user - Window snapping isn't built in outside of fullscreen mode (seriously?!) - Sleep…

Window snapping exists in macOS, hold the option key while hovering over the zoom button and the snapping options pop up in a tooltip.

Personally, I like that macOS is more or less unchanged. It’s familiar, and I don’t have to worry about big sweeping changes like Windows 8 or Gnome 3 and Gnome 40.

For everything else there’s usually a tiny utility app you can install the gives you the functionality and runs in the background using very little resources.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#234

Post by cytzol »

amelius wrote: post #75

What are those images on the "Command" and "Option" keys supposed to express?

I mean obviously the Command key is the Swedish Campground symbol: https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Swedish_Campgrou...

And of course, the Option key's symbol is the diagram that Doc draws in Back to the Future when he's explaining alternate timelines.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#235

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

cytzol wrote: post #113

This post illuminates two ways in which users' expectations of computers have changed since the '80s, which is when this UX was designed: 1) Users don't deal with external storage nearly as much anymore, so the "disk image" paradigm feels out of place. Before the Internet, it was more common to insert a floppy disk, drag the application from the disk to the hard drive, and then eject it again. Users were accustomed t…

> It didn't even need to be in the Applications folder! You could put it in a subdirectory, you could put it on the Desktop, you could put it wherever you liked, and it would work just the same. I think it's a darn shame that this isn't a guarantee anymore.

It is even worse than that, many applications these days cannot even be installed anywhere other than the default location! At least on Windows you used to be able to do that with a high degree of reliability.

I think the original Mac did it right and everyone else who didn't do the same thing (RiscOS, NeXT kinda) is doing it completely wrong. Which is why I'm a fan of AppImage when I have to use Linux Desktop and "portable" applications when I use Windows. I don't use modern MacOS.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#236

Post by karaterobot »

geraltofrivia wrote: post #204
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

Amongst other gripes people have mentioned (and I agree with), here's another: cut. There does not seem to be a way to cut and paste a file/folder. The best I could figure out is to drag the icons, hold down the finger, and move the cursor to the desired folder on the sidebar (or another window) and release the finger. This is either extremely difficult to pull of, or I am less dexterous than I think I am. Why not ha…

This was one of my big gripes about MacOS when I had to use it for work. Evidently what you need to do is copy the file, then hold down OPT (along with CMD-V) when you paste it. You'll hear a sound effect that tells you it worked.

If you right click to open the context menu, and press OPT, you'll even see the "paste item" option turn into "move item".

It's 100% the wrong way to do it. Maddeningly wrong. In a world where CTRL-X hadn't existed for decades, and Apple's way of doing it was the norm, if someone came along and "invented" CTRL-X for the cut command, it would be universally recognized as an improvement.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#237

Post by BombNullIsland »

rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

I moved to mac during Vista, switched back for 7, and then bailed after Windows 8. I'm still running 7 on my gaming/video editing machine.

Microsoft needs to stop fucking with working UIs. Metro (or whatever they call it now) is a worthless eyesore full of ads and distracting rotating, flipping, bouncing UI elements. Get out of my face and let me do my work.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#238

Post by coldtea »

rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

>Why is it that when I click Finder, nothing actually opens? I have to hit Option+N to actually display a Finder window.

Clicking Finder will open a new Finder window if none was created thus far, or bring up a minimized window.

>Don't even get me started on the sort options. What kind of file manager applies a Sort view to every single directory, instead of the one you actually set the Sort view to?

Not sure what you mean. If I click to select a sort view, it's applied to the directory I'm looking at.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#239

Post by sjg007 »

FabHK wrote: post #140
politician wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that it's not intuitive for the end user to press Cmd-G, type ~, and then click OK to land in a "home" folder where the majority of the important configuration files are hidden by default?

The majority of configuration files should not be edited directly, but changed by changing settings in the app preferences. So that seems consistent with the philosophy on the Mac - don't work with files and the file system directly, but let the appropriate app take care of it as far as possible. Same with music and photos.

Photos existing in the giant photos thing is just a mess. I hate it. I have to export them to do anything. I am not sure they even back up correctly. And this is photos.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#240

Post by qq4 »

rapsey wrote: post #89
geraneum wrote: post #84

If a certain way of doing things which I am very much used to does not apply to a different environment, it does not mean the subject is not intuitive whether it's macOS, Windows, etc. To me, intuitiveness means how easy it is to operate the system correctly without prior training. Honestly, for a non-tech savvy, macOS and Windows both have many quirks and don't let me start with Linux distros (Fedora is my daily dri…

What keeps me on macOS is keyboard shortcuts. Typing on windows or linux is so much more annoying.

That's funny, I feel the opposite regarding OS X and Linux. Fwiw I have never used macOS, but I imagine it's very similar to OS X.
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