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How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

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Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#141

Post by amelius »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #36
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

Also, by default Finder seems to hide directory structure from you. This seems to be Apple thinking it'll confuse people if they can see 'up' directories, but I think just as often it confuses people like me who are trying and failing to go up. I use all three major desktop OSes regularly now, and overall Windows just feels like the most user-friendly and straightforward, though of course it too has issues (e.g. vari…

> Oh, and Linux seems to be by far the least stable. I have apps freezing the whole damn computer way more often there than the other two.

How often is that? What hardware do you run it on? What distro do you use?

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#142

Post by ftio »

cytzol wrote: post #113

This post illuminates two ways in which users' expectations of computers have changed since the '80s, which is when this UX was designed: 1) Users don't deal with external storage nearly as much anymore, so the "disk image" paradigm feels out of place. Before the Internet, it was more common to insert a floppy disk, drag the application from the disk to the hard drive, and then eject it again. Users were accustomed t…

Spot on. I had a similar thought.

Another major change is that the App Store is now the default way for 99% of users to download and install software. Pre-App Store (say, in the Tiger-Snow Leopard days), Mac users with even limited experience knew the `Mount DMG → Drag to Applications` ritual. At the time, it was one of the two primary ways of installing Mac software, the other being using Package Installer to run .pkg installations.

As a Certified Technical Consultant in those days, I found that almost everyone was able to do the Package Manager method; the DMG method created a lot of chaos for about 50% of people. You'd find people running Firefox or Chrome from the DMG, which they'd leave mounted and visible on their desktops in perpetuity.

As a Windows switcher (in 2006) I always felt that the drag-and-drop model was really elegant, but it was unintuitive because, to your point, I had been exposed to the installation model for so long.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#143

Post by adamsvystun »

drewg123 wrote: post #96

I just helped a friend who is a lifetime windows user set up her new MBP M1. I was reminded how un-intuitive things are and how useful UI elements are hidden in the name of "simplicity". A lot of it for her is centered around the finder and accessing files in general. The two biggest issues she had was: 1) finder not easily acting as an image viewer. Eg, she had an SD card from her camera, and wanted to quickly scan…

The first issue is confusing to me. I also recently switched to Mac and I find Finder to be super intuitive and easy to use. Icons view is very easy to find, there is literally only 9 buttons in Finder, where 4 of them represent different views... As regards to making icons larger I agree that finding the actual setting is complicated, but I intuitively tried cmd+plus(+) and it worked.

btw for looking through photos I find gallery view to be more convenient.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#144

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

nabla9 wrote: post #16

It's unfortunate that the intuitive user interface for a new user is the goal for commercial reasons. Many people use computers 2-8 hour per day for their whole life. It would be worth of the effort to create secondary consistent UI that takes weeks to learn, even if it would increase productivity just 5%.

I don't see any reason OSs cannot be both more intuitive and afford more productivity than they currently do. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell neither is a goal of modern Desktop OSs.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#145

Post by throwawayboise »

city41 wrote: post #125
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

I used Macs exclusively from MacOS 7 up until about 3 years ago. And I will always stand by Macs were easier to use, more consistent and more intuitive before OSX. Yes, the OS was archaic architecturally and it was downright primitive in many ways. But the UX was far superior. Finder is bizarre in that it hasn't really changed much at all in 20+ years.

That discontinuity is because OSX is decended from NEXTSTEP, not classic MacOS. Finder was "ported" but many of the other NeXT-isms remain.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#146

Post by Tabular-Iceberg »

I’m a lifelong Mac user who always thought of it as intuitive, so I suggested a relative get one, thinking I would get fewer support calls, and when I do actually know the answer. And of course not have to deal with bloatware.

I couldn’t have been more wrong. That superior trackpad with foolproof palm rejection? Useless. She was inadvertently triggering weird gestures all the time. But it behaved normally when I tried it. Years back I was using a Thinkpad and I was the one with the problem, I had to unplug the trackpad to be able to type. Neither of us are idiots or spastics, so maybe it’s just about being unconsciously trained for one system or the other.

Also the Mac came with preinstalled bloatware.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#147

Post by layoutIfNeeded »

ForHackernews wrote: post #129
agustif wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Just use [spacebar] on any view to open up the image in spotlight? The problem with the mac is that much has been done on top of older patterns, etc.... If you're a hardcore user though, I'd take Mac over windows or linux any day.

> Just use [spacebar] on any view to open up the image in spotlight? Just press a random key on the keyboard? How exactly is that intuitive? Keyboard shortcuts are the absolute worst for discoverability.

But they are the best for productivity.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#148

Post by whywhywhywhy »

asattarmd wrote: post #49
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

The worst: pressing Enter to rename a file in finder. Command + Down arrow to open it. WTF!

This is one of my favorite things about it, really wish I could have the same behavior on Windows.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#149

Post by hnlmorg »

least wrote: post #111
wraptile wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who recently switched to MacOs (not by their own choice) there are hundreds of little annoying, broken or inconsistent OS things I find. One of my favorites just happened yesterday with finder - I was trying to figure out how to rename a file, well the usual fx keys aren't doing it so the common process was to go to the toolbar context menu where hotkey is indicated next to the action's text. Rename for so…

The only reason that the return key is the 'least obvious' key to you is because you're used to that being the 'open' key on other operating systems.

On literally every other operating system. I've used dozens of platforms, some of them pretty obscure, some of them hobbyist, some of them were purpose built for hardware that stopped being manufactured 20, 30 or more years ago, and all of them supported return as a trigger in menus, be it graphical or text based. Finder really is the odd ball with regards to binding it to rename.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#150

Post by sudosysgen »

cytzol wrote: post #113

This post illuminates two ways in which users' expectations of computers have changed since the '80s, which is when this UX was designed: 1) Users don't deal with external storage nearly as much anymore, so the "disk image" paradigm feels out of place. Before the Internet, it was more common to insert a floppy disk, drag the application from the disk to the hard drive, and then eject it again. Users were accustomed t…

But you haven't described how to uninstall an app. You described how to remove the program directory, which would be the same as deleting the folder in Program File on windows.

Changes to system config won't be rolled back and other files won't be cleaned up.

That's why on Mac OS you sometimes have to get an uninstaller, which sucks because now you have an inconsistency.

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