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Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

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Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#61

Post by TeMPOraL »

cblconfederate wrote: post #38
iso1631 wrote: post #12

But Ryanair havent https://www.flightradar24.com/RYR7BJ/27cf72bf FR3340 flying from Pafos, Cyprus to Tallin, Estonia, is about to cross from Ukraine into Belarus airspace A route avoiding Belarus would have added at 56 miles to the 1740 mile journey, about 3%. http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=pfo-tll,pfo-EPBP-tll

buy the "No kidnapping" package for an extra cost of $169.99/person

There are companies that would insure you if you needed it, but I'm guessing this may not apply to a state-sanctioned kidnapping.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#62

Post by ghostwriter »

V-2 wrote: post #29
sneak wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A careful reading of the wikipedia page shows the truth. Whether you revoke airspace permits and force the plane down based on fuel reserves, or scramble fighter jets, the net effect is the same: the plane lands before when it was planning to, if it wants to do so in one piece. Let’s not split hairs here when the precise same political motivation, and the precise same mechanism was used (the threat of fighters if the…

Well - they obviously had enough fuel to simply fly back to Russia if Snowden were actually on board. I'm not saying I support that action - I'm only pointing out these two incidents aren't quite in the same category.

> I'm only pointing out these two incidents aren't quite in the same category.

they are the same in motives and principles - in both cases a state pressure was applied to extract an undesirable to the regime citizen from a plane. Focusing on technicalities of the act doesn't resolve the issue with the nature of the act - the corrupt state acting as a bully to coerce its rightful citizen into submittance, with all available means. It shouldn't be a revelation that a scoundrel-of-a-state is ready to escalate the means to fighter jets sooner than later.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#63

Post by V-2 »

ghostwriter wrote: post #62
V-2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well - they obviously had enough fuel to simply fly back to Russia if Snowden were actually on board. I'm not saying I support that action - I'm only pointing out these two incidents aren't quite in the same category.

> I'm only pointing out these two incidents aren't quite in the same category. they are the same in motives and principles - in both cases a state pressure was applied to extract an undesirable to the regime citizen from a plane. Focusing on technicalities of the act doesn't resolve the issue with the nature of the act - the corrupt state acting as a bully to coerce its rightful citizen into submittance, with all ava…

"in both cases a state pressure was applied to extract an undesirable to the regime citizen from a plane"

As I explained - in case of Snowden they would only have prevented him from getting to South America. They wouldn't have extracted him from the plane. If Snowden was on board, he'd simply be flown back to Russia - back to square one.

An analogy in this case would be Belarus merely prohibiting the RyanAir flight from entering their airspace.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#64

Post by ramblerman »

maratc wrote: post #8

This will likely have no consequences to the regime in Belarus, while increasing costs to these Baltic airlines. A policy that might achieve something would be if the Baltic states, together with Poland and Ukraine, would close their airspace to Belavia planes, until the detained passenger is delivered to his destination in Vilnius. This will increase costs to Belarusian airlines, which would be a problem to the regi…

I like that idea, this is the perfect *nonviolent* answer to this.

The EU's response is so important here, they have already proved time and time again they are a dog which is all bark and no bite.

I'm sure China and Turkey are watching eagerly.

It doesn't have to be a military response, but no response or the typical waving the finger in the air, can not be afforded here.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#65

Post by ghostwriter »

V-2 wrote: post #63
ghostwriter wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm only pointing out these two incidents aren't quite in the same category. they are the same in motives and principles - in both cases a state pressure was applied to extract an undesirable to the regime citizen from a plane. Focusing on technicalities of the act doesn't resolve the issue with the nature of the act - the corrupt state acting as a bully to coerce its rightful citizen into submittance, with all ava…

"in both cases a state pressure was applied to extract an undesirable to the regime citizen from a plane" As I explained - in case of Snowden they would only have prevented him from getting to South America. They wouldn't have extracted him from the plane. If Snowden was on board, he'd simply be flown back to Russia - back to square one. An analogy in this case would be Belarus merely prohibiting the RyanAir flight f…

> As I explained - in case of Snowden they would only have prevented him from getting to South America.

on what basis and by what standard? What would happen to him if he landed in South America? Would he be able to land in South America?

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#66

Post by gostsamo »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #57
golergka wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European diplomats being "strongly concerned" have long become a running joke here in Russia: https://twitter.com/ISEUConcerned I sincerely hope that this statement finally gets backed up by some decisive action that can put real pressure on these dictators, but I don't get my hopes up.

What is the probability of this account being owned by Russian government? I would say 99% and you’re just perpetuating the same propaganda.

No, much smaller. I would agree that the EU's foreign policy is a disaster because of traditionally corrupted elites. The fact that the russian elites are even more corrupted is not an excuse.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#67

Post by csomar »

erentz wrote: post #40

It’s odd to me that the Ryanair flight yesterday was already closer to its destination of Vilnius than Minsk when it turned around. Ryanair said that the crew had been "notified by Belarus (Air Traffic Control) of a potential security threat on board and were instructed to divert to the nearest airport, Minsk". So they didn’t have an incident onboard? There were no hijackers claiming to have a bomb? Just ATC telling…

They sent a fighter jet. I don't think the pilot had much of a choice.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#69

Post by tsimionescu »

V-2 wrote: post #29
sneak wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A careful reading of the wikipedia page shows the truth. Whether you revoke airspace permits and force the plane down based on fuel reserves, or scramble fighter jets, the net effect is the same: the plane lands before when it was planning to, if it wants to do so in one piece. Let’s not split hairs here when the precise same political motivation, and the precise same mechanism was used (the threat of fighters if the…

Well - they obviously had enough fuel to simply fly back to Russia if Snowden were actually on board. I'm not saying I support that action - I'm only pointing out these two incidents aren't quite in the same category.

If they were over Austria, are you sure the other countries on the way to Russia would have let them through? Or would they have suddenly also refused access over their air space?

We will never know of course, but the closeness of the situation is still alarming.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#70

Post by andrewshadura »

clon wrote: post #53

Seems Ryanair has not learned much though. PFO-->TLL RYR7BJ is traversing Batka's personal airspace as I write this comment.

Please don't use the word batka to refer to Lukashenko. The word means father, and it was originally used to mock Belarusian for supposedly liking his approach to ruling the country. He's no father to any of us, and it's insulting to Belarusians to see someone referring to him this way.
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