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Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

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Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#591

Post by anonymouse008 »

saurik wrote: post #24
jorams wrote: post #16

> “IAP helps Apple efficiently collect a commission” — for payment processing, but also customer service and the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Without in-app purchases, “we would have to come up with another system to invoice developers, which I think would be a mess.” If Apple let developers tell users about other payment methods, Cook said later, “we would in essence give up our total return on our IP.” App…

> If Apple let developers tell users about other payment methods, Cook said later, “we would in essence give up our total return on our IP.” Apple believes ("insists"?) that they deserve a cut of your app's revenue--however you might collect the money--because your app is using their "IP" in the form of all the libraries and tooling they nigh unto force you to use to build apps that run on their phone; like, to them,…

Everyone is gawking over the M1

> because your app is using their "IP" in the form of all the libraries and tooling they nigh unto force you to use to build apps that run on their phone; like, to them, UIKit (I presume), Metal (which many people are only using because Apple refused to implement OpenGL or Vulcan), and (this is rich) apparently even Xcode

And say what you will about Xcode, but I’m literally building in Vapor 4 (server side Swift) with all of its warts because I experience trauma leaving Xcode. JetBrains and VSCode are painful to get to function like Xcode - but if there are any pointers to make it a better experience I’m al ears...

Edit: just to reiterate. Users want long battery life, fast compile times / snappy apps, better connectivity into life...

And honestly Apple has almost screwed itself executing perfectly on those demands in its native platform.

We forget at the end of the day we all (devs, manufacturers, etc) are working to bring value to a customer, who has other relationships with other suppliers. Those other relationships create multiple Pareto equilibriums based on the utility function of the customer... this case is trying to reweight (with more philosophical reason) how millions of customers have previously and consistently chosen to balance their decisions

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#592

Post by ineedasername »

bredren wrote: post #501
deergomoo wrote: post #56

> Cook used more privacy and safety claims to defend that system, saying it would be both insecure and inconvenient to let apps process payments separately This one is always funny to me, because sellers of physical goods are of course totally exempt from IAP rules, because it would be untenable otherwise. I can type my card number directly into the Amazon app and buy a paperback without any intervention from Apple.…

On the surface, ebooks as a category of content make sense to allow direct sale as you described. However, your use of Amazon also serves as an illustration of Apple’s case. Among kindle enthusiasts, Amazon had notoriously neglected the Kindle product hardware and software platform. From neglecting Goodreads to stagnation, to not including USB-C on its very expensive Oasis product, the whole brand is a picture of “we…

If you're making a usability case between an Apple product, you have to use the comparable Amazon product: Kindle Fire. Amazon's eink readers are a completely different product class than anything from Apple. And on a Kindle fire the experience isn't dramatically different than any other android based system, and the kindle reader apps between Apple and Fires are nearly identical.

Comparing an eink interface to iOS is simply not at all appropriate. Eink technology does not optimize for interface speed. It is not part of its primary design goals.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#593

Post by stjohnswarts »

5560675260 wrote: post #424
akudha wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the solution is to force majority of the population to use Apple store, to protect minority of the population who aren't tech savvy? If Apple allowed other stores, before a user can install an app from non-Apple store, iOS can show a message saying the app is not from Apple's holy store and that it is users responsibility to make sure the app is trustworthy? This won't be pretty, but at least it is a compromise. T…

One possible solution is to start giving our money to companies that are not Apple or Google. Otherwise we'll be forever stuck with this duopoly and various alternative OS will keep being niche at best.

Show me a viable 3rd party OS phone that doesn't require me to jump through 1000 hoops and accept subpar reception/user experience and I'll hop right on it. Until then I'll choose iPhone for it's superior user privacy policy (compared to Android/Google)

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#594

Post by stjohnswarts »

wayneftw wrote: post #59
jrsj wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because my grandma is clueless and I give her an iPhone so she doesn’t install malware like she managed to on her Android phone

And Apple protecting her from that is the only solution? I don't think so... With just a tiny bit of imagination I'm sure we can come up with something which will work. Here's an idea: Let Apple sell Apple-locked and unlocked iPhones. It can work just like carrier locking. Buy one unlocked, maybe pay a little extra, and you can have 3rd party app stores. That took me a minute to come up with. I am absolutely positive…

I just want a commodity pocket computer. I don't need to be able to install linux on it or Uncle Jack's latest new app idea. I just want to see my calendar, answer emails, and take calls, I dgaf about "oh I can put git on my phone and download the latest rustc and compile my web backend and test it on my phone!"

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#595

Post by sdgawrgdsfds »

crazygringo wrote: post #366
remolacha wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there were two, or ten, food safety inspection groups, we could figure out which ones had trustworthy ratings. No need for end consumers to inspect every restaurant (every app) individually. That's what Epic is asking for - to have its own app store on iOS.

Which is exactly what everyone wants to avoid. Imagine if there were 10 inspection groups, but sometimes they get bought by corrupt investors who let standards slide while pocketing the extra profit, and consumers constantly have to stay on top of which food inspection groups are the current OK ones and which aren't, and restaurants can't afford to get inspected by all 10 so they only do 2 but then people who only tr…

> Imagine... consumers constantly have to stay on top of which [regulators] are the current OK ones and which aren't...

A thriving market in marijuana has existed your entire life. It works exactly this way.

Countless examples. PC hardware. Vaping. Yelp.

It's fine. Which is lucky: who watches the watchers?

You want real-time feedback without perverse incentives. Only customers can provide it.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#596

Post by stephc_int13 »

saurik wrote: post #24
jorams wrote: post #16

> “IAP helps Apple efficiently collect a commission” — for payment processing, but also customer service and the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Without in-app purchases, “we would have to come up with another system to invoice developers, which I think would be a mess.” If Apple let developers tell users about other payment methods, Cook said later, “we would in essence give up our total return on our IP.” App…

> If Apple let developers tell users about other payment methods, Cook said later, “we would in essence give up our total return on our IP.” Apple believes ("insists"?) that they deserve a cut of your app's revenue--however you might collect the money--because your app is using their "IP" in the form of all the libraries and tooling they nigh unto force you to use to build apps that run on their phone; like, to them,…

The largest part of app store revenue is games, most games use only a small subset of Apple APIs, and very often only because Apple is not supporting industry standards (like Vulkan or OpenGL)

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#597

Post by hnlmorg »

afavour wrote: post #361
spion wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, should Apple charge something like $1/user/month to allow companies to publish apps and run software on iPhones?

How is that the same logic? Amazon does not charge end users for allowing services they use to run on AWS.

Yes they do. They charge you compute time, data egress and storage costs. They charge you for premium support, DNS lookups, and even just having an unused IP reservation. AWS has an extensive and diverse model for charges. So much so that it's very difficult to accurately calculate the total cost of a new project ahead of deploying it due to all the hidden costs.

If Apple adopted the same model as AWS, people would still moan.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#598

Post by llukas »

mthoms wrote: post #408
czzr wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a major app moves to a different App Store, people will install the second (and third, and fourth, etc.) No one will say “oh, well, I want Instagram because all my friends have it but I’m not going to install Facebook’s store to get it because I want to keep my phone secure.” The problem is that security and privacy benefits are somewhat intangible and hidden, so they are not enough to convince people to weight th…

Developers won't leave the App Store if Apple are offering good value to them and their customers. If Apple stops offering good value (fair policies, commissions), then Apple should be "punished" by losing business. Offering competing stores provides a strong incentive for Apple to make theirs even better. Developers would win and consumers would win. The only "loser" would be Apple (at least as far as short term fin…

Facebook, instagram or any ad-backed app users are the product not the customer.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#599

Post by Aeolun »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #591
saurik wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Apple let developers tell users about other payment methods, Cook said later, “we would in essence give up our total return on our IP.” Apple believes ("insists"?) that they deserve a cut of your app's revenue--however you might collect the money--because your app is using their "IP" in the form of all the libraries and tooling they nigh unto force you to use to build apps that run on their phone; like, to them,…

Everyone is gawking over the M1 > because your app is using their "IP" in the form of all the libraries and tooling they nigh unto force you to use to build apps that run on their phone; like, to them, UIKit (I presume), Metal (which many people are only using because Apple refused to implement OpenGL or Vulcan), and (this is rich) apparently even Xcode And say what you will about Xcode, but I’m literally building in…

> JetBrains and VSCode are painful to get to function like Xcode

Because nobody sane wants them to? Like, to me, I can jump into most any IDE I’ve ever used without too much trouble, but Xcode is impenetrable.

It’s like Apple tried to throw up an artificial wall by making all Xcode paradigms different from anything else.

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