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The sexual counterrevolution is coming

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Re: The sexual counterrevolution is coming

#11

Post by alecbz »

seibelj wrote: post #6

There is no better time in the history of civilization to live and that includes the freedom of sexual relationships. You can use the internet to find any type of group interested in exactly what you are, from the most wholesome religious dating to the most open, kink-positive open-relationship group-house lifestyle you can imagine. And these more-less exist in every moderately-sized city in the west, or some form of…

I think freedom to choose per se is generally good, but no guidance about how to choose isn't necessarily: nudges[0] can be very important.

Freedom to eat whatever you want is fine, maybe good, but not having guidance on what kinds of food to eat can be bad. We don't always know what's going to make us happy in the long term, especially e.g. with things that involve trading off immediate pain for deferred benefit (exercising, dieting).

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudge_(book)

Re: The sexual counterrevolution is coming

#13

Post by alecbz »

ergot_vacation wrote: post #8

Why does everything have to be a swing between extremes? Why does everything have to be a bitter war? Why can't people just let other people live their lives, as long as they're not hurting anyone? Clearly there's a lot of value in plain old traditional marriage, being a housewife, being a husband, supporting your kids etc. We likely can't have a civilization unless a certain percentage of people are doing this, and…

Because we're social for a lot of this kind of stuff it does sort of matter that other people are going in the same direction.

Angry or condescending judgement is bad, but I don't think advocating for doing things one way over another is.

Re: The sexual counterrevolution is coming

#14

Post by Latty »

penguintester wrote: post #3
karaterobot wrote: post #2

I don't see any real evidence in that article for the claim in the headline. If anything, all the trends she's pointing to go the other way, and the supporting anecdotes she has are clearly called out as unusual exceptions to the rule. Taking history as a precedent, the pendulum is likely to swing the other way eventually , though it'll still surprise us when and in what form it comes. That's just how these things go…

The 2x differential between GenX sex rates and the current sex rates seems like a pretty good statistic. Can't imagine anything that's affecting that number but the massive distribution of pornography enabled by the advent of the internet, reducing the need for real intimacy, especially given the way that our culture is even more hyper sexualized than back in the 60s and more enabled by dating apps.

You can't imagine anything else affecting it?

There is a pandemic, young people are increasingly struggling to move out of their parents houses, and young people are increasingly not able to afford to go out and socialise as much.

If I wanted to start making guesses, I'd also say that we have better sex ed and better media that reduces the pressure on teenagers to have sex as early as possible.

Re: The sexual counterrevolution is coming

#15

Post by airpoint »

RONROC wrote: post #7
yosito wrote: post #5

This is just a random columnist's assertion that some young people with pretty insecure and controlling views of sex and relationships represent a trend or a "counter revolution". While I don't at all doubt that there are many people who hold these views, I'd refrain from calling it a trend until I see some solid evidence.

This is an opinion piece, not a research paper. Jesus.

Title it as such then? God.

Re: The sexual counterrevolution is coming

#16

Post by ttt0 »

ergot_vacation wrote: post #8

Why does everything have to be a swing between extremes? Why does everything have to be a bitter war? Why can't people just let other people live their lives, as long as they're not hurting anyone? Clearly there's a lot of value in plain old traditional marriage, being a housewife, being a husband, supporting your kids etc. We likely can't have a civilization unless a certain percentage of people are doing this, and…

> If we run short on the family types (as we may be doing), incentivize that lifestyle a bit. I hear Japan actually pays people (a little) to have kids.

It's not that unusual in the West either, it's just most often done by giving tax breaks to married couples. You probably won't be able to incentivize this kind of lifestyle any time soon, because people will scream discrimination if you tried to, just like they did about the marriage.

Re: The sexual counterrevolution is coming

#17

Post by throwawaysea »

ergot_vacation wrote: post #8

Why does everything have to be a swing between extremes? Why does everything have to be a bitter war? Why can't people just let other people live their lives, as long as they're not hurting anyone? Clearly there's a lot of value in plain old traditional marriage, being a housewife, being a husband, supporting your kids etc. We likely can't have a civilization unless a certain percentage of people are doing this, and…

I agree with your sentiment - there is value in both sides and the freedom to choose at the individual level is great. The swing between extremes is because of the abuse of power that accompanies each cultural or political period. The article touches on this:

> ‘Voicing any of this stuff openly is just social suicide,’ he says. So much so, in fact, that ‘Narayan’ is a pseudonym: there’s simply no way he can afford to be quoted about this under his real name without risking social censure or even repercussions at work.

When people cannot share their opinions freely, and cannot do so without an extensive impact across their life (for example on work), then only the ideas in power can circulate. That happens until things reach a boiling point - motivating a swing towards other extremes.

Re: The sexual counterrevolution is coming

#18

Post by penguintester »

Latty wrote: post #14
penguintester wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2x differential between GenX sex rates and the current sex rates seems like a pretty good statistic. Can't imagine anything that's affecting that number but the massive distribution of pornography enabled by the advent of the internet, reducing the need for real intimacy, especially given the way that our culture is even more hyper sexualized than back in the 60s and more enabled by dating apps.

You can't imagine anything else affecting it? There is a pandemic, young people are increasingly struggling to move out of their parents houses, and young people are increasingly not able to afford to go out and socialise as much. If I wanted to start making guesses, I'd also say that we have better sex ed and better media that reduces the pressure on teenagers to have sex as early as possible.

The trend have been long established before the pandemic was a thing, and although I do think that that the reduction in economic prospects have affected it, that should be somewhat offset with what I have previously stated, which is an increasing predilection for sexual promiscuity in our culture while enabled by greater access via dating apps. The fact that the reverse is happening, that in fact the rate of teenage hookups have dramatically fallen, is, in my mind, an affirmation for the disastrous effects that massively distributed pornography has played in our romantic culture, substituting the drive for romantic courtship and promoting anti social activities.

And anyways, what does reducing pressures on teens to have sex as early as possible (which I whole heartily agree with) have to do with the facts that we were discussing anyways?

Re: The sexual counterrevolution is coming

#20

Post by moistly »

penguintester wrote: post #3
karaterobot wrote: post #2

I don't see any real evidence in that article for the claim in the headline. If anything, all the trends she's pointing to go the other way, and the supporting anecdotes she has are clearly called out as unusual exceptions to the rule. Taking history as a precedent, the pendulum is likely to swing the other way eventually , though it'll still surprise us when and in what form it comes. That's just how these things go…

The 2x differential between GenX sex rates and the current sex rates seems like a pretty good statistic. Can't imagine anything that's affecting that number but the massive distribution of pornography enabled by the advent of the internet, reducing the need for real intimacy, especially given the way that our culture is even more hyper sexualized than back in the 60s and more enabled by dating apps.

Phthalates and other hormone disrupters, both in vitro and as a growing youth, are also a cause. Children are being immersed in chemicals that are harmful, and it is fucking up their hormonal, endocrine, and other systems that guide/form/control our sex.
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