Facebook still ‘secretly’ tracks your iPhone • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook still ‘secretly’ tracks your iPhone

#191

Post by Nextgrid » Sun, May 23, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

doggosphere wrote: post #182

nr2x wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any sufficiently advanced form of advertising is indistinguishable from malware.

Doesn't seem to fit the definition of malware: Malware is any software intentionally designed to cause damage to a computer, server, client, or computer network. A wide variety of malware types exist, including computer viruses, worms, Trojan horses, ransomware, spyware, adware, rogue software, wiper and scareware.

> spyware, adware

Most advertising behaves like spyware for targeting purposes. It would be fine if it was consensual, but it's basically never the case.

> scareware

This is more about the ad's content than the concept of advertising itself, but online advertising is essentially the wild west and advertising platforms happen to get away with serving misleading ads that use scare tactics to get the user to do something against their best interests (sometimes even downloading actual malware).

Re: Facebook still ‘secretly’ tracks your iPhone

#192

Post by Nextgrid » Sun, May 23, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

nickserv wrote: post #170

motohagiography wrote: post #150

Beginning to think the reason security is so difficult is because ostensibly "good" companies do everything an attacker does and worse, but under the guise of EULAs. Here's a thought experiement: If Facebook were malware, could you get rid of it?

Many of my friends on FB know that their data is being harvested, and simply don't care. As for me, I would use an alternative platform in a heartbeat, but all the privacy focused ones so far have not gained any traction.

The problem isn't that data is being harvested when they use Facebook, it's also that data is being harvested behind their back with FB stalking everything they do online (since the majority of websites and apps include FB malware) and linking it back to their user profile.

Clearly most people aren't aware of that (nor are they happy with it) given that some people even have the impression that Facebook is literally listening to conversations.

Re: Facebook still ‘secretly’ tracks your iPhone

#193

Post by Nextgrid » Sun, May 23, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

jeromegv wrote: post #127

h0nd wrote: post #121

i use jailbreak to control my location better - i can more easily de/activate it and spoof my location. Now, I noticed a weird behaviour. I am not sure if its a 'bug' due to jailbreak, or if it shows how apps can access location. The setup is as follows: location services are completely deactivated system-wide. a spoof location is set. This means, I am not able in any way to access/share my location, neither the real…

It's not obvious. You are uploading a photo to send to a friend, you don't know or expect that where this photo was taken is automatically used by Facebook to target you. Hell, most people wouldn't even know that the EXIF has the location.

To be fair, this is more of a legal and ethical problem than a technology problem.

Photo geolocation metadata has legitimate uses, the problem isn't that the metadata is there per-se but that it's being used for nefarious purposes without the user's knowledge nor consent.

Re: Facebook still ‘secretly’ tracks your iPhone

#194

Post by ViViDboarder » Sun, May 23, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

woutr_be wrote: post #109

saos wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually these type of situation show who are your friends. Your friends will call you, text you and arrange meets. And There’s FaceTime if your far from friend. Stop relying on Facebook to connect you…

Excuse me, but what? My friends text and call me through WhatsApp or Facebook. If anything, me ditching those two services would justify them not reaching out, because it implies I’m the difficult one. Me making it difficult to be reached does not mean they’re not my friends. EDIT: > And There’s FaceTime if your far from friend. Stop relying on Facebook to connect you… I'm not even sure to describe how ignorant this…

> If anything, me ditching those two services would justify them not reaching out, because it implies I’m the difficult one.

Wow. You’re friends have so little respect for your privacy that they’d rather not talk to you than communicate via a different app?

Re: Facebook still ‘secretly’ tracks your iPhone

#195

Post by ViViDboarder » Sun, May 23, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

Proziam wrote: post #164

slothtrop wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people shift to Telegram / Signal if they can get their friends to install them.

I did this. Shifted the whole family to Telegram, and am hoping Signal catches up so we can switch to that. I do have a few members of the family on Signal already though. They're just the ones that don't mind giving up stickers and the nice interface

Signal has had stickers for over a year now. https://signal.org/blog/make-privacy-stick/

About the time they added stickers, and message replies my friends group chats switched over.

Re: Facebook still ‘secretly’ tracks your iPhone

#196

Post by Nextgrid » Sun, May 23, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

intricatedetail wrote: post #48

Why any privacy compromising options are not opt in by default? It should be a law if companies can't be bothered.

The GDPR makes it opt-in, and this behavior is absolutely in breach of it.

Two problems:

* there's a lot of misinformation around the GDPR even in the tech community

* some of this misinformation is most likely distributed intentionally, either to derail the GDPR itself or to continue profiting off nefarious things (marketing, etc) while pretending to comply and getting business via that (the majority of "GDPR compliance solutions" are absolutely not compliant, and yet companies pay for them)

* some GDPR criticism is clearly in bad faith by vested interests who currently make a lot of money from breaching it (including on this community)

* the regulators have been absolutely incompetent or unwilling to enforce it.

Re: Facebook still ‘secretly’ tracks your iPhone

#197

Post by swiftcoder » Sun, May 23, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

gentleman11 wrote: post #156

speedgoose wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it's not that simple for everyone. I personally would lose contact with a lot of people if I delete Messenger or Whatsapp. On all my contacts, I have two on Signal, zero on Matrix.

I stopped using Facebook and just started phoning and texting people a few years ago. Almost all the contact you have with people on Facebook is fake, it’s mostly sharing memes and news. It’s more personal to do that over the phone. I think I’m closer with almost everyone since leaving Facebook. Most of my contacts have installed signal of their own accord at some point too which is weird but pleasant

This probably works ok if all of your friends live in the same country as you (and that country still widely uses SMS). However it turns out that international calls/texts are still an expensive minefield, and folks who move around internationally don't have stable phone numbers (since those are tied to country). And as a result, WhatsApp/Messenger is the only viable communication method for a lot of folks.

Re: Facebook still ‘secretly’ tracks your iPhone

#198

Post by Nextgrid » Sun, May 23, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #155

intricatedetail wrote: post #48

Why any privacy compromising options are not opt in by default? It should be a law if companies can't be bothered.

It's "opt-in" when you sign up for a Facebook account, install the app, etc.

This would absolutely not comply with the GDPR. Under the GDPR, consent for non-essential data processing purposes should be granular, so people should be able to opt in selectively.

Re: Facebook still ‘secretly’ tracks your iPhone

#199

Post by ViViDboarder » Sun, May 23, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

andylynch wrote: post #78

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the iOS photo library API should really strip out the EXIF data before passing to apps unless the user has let them have access to it - I bet this will be added at some point. Facebook would like to access your photos: Select Photos All Photos Strip location and other metadata

This option does comes up when sharing from the Photos app - I think this in possibly new in 14.5? The manage photos screen in apps does say metadata is included, but doesn’t yet give an option to strip it.

The option to strip location and other metadata when sharing has been there for several years now.

I believe the issue lies in giving apps permission to access photos directly. This bypasses the share sheet and you never see this option.

Re: Facebook still ‘secretly’ tracks your iPhone

#200

Post by speedgoose » Sun, May 23, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #132

speedgoose wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it's not that simple for everyone. I personally would lose contact with a lot of people if I delete Messenger or Whatsapp. On all my contacts, I have two on Signal, zero on Matrix.

It is though. It's astonishing how little people are willing to sacrifice for their ideals. If you don't have an issue with Facebook then disregard and continue using their services. If you do have a problem then try being the change you want to see. Tend your garden. You cannot control other people but you can control yourself.

I believe that forcing such companies to respect privacy better is the right solution.

Deleting the Facebook owned applications from my phone would achieve close to nothing positive. I may convince a few family members and good friends to use another application only for me, but I will lose a lot of relations and Facebook wouldn't care. However I also did work in small research studies to expose to everyone the bad practices of some companies about privacy. It's not much but it helps when our governments make laws such as the GDPR.