Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing • Hacker News Board

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#21

Post by vbezhenar » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:23 AM UTC

hpaavola wrote: post #12

akg_67 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope multiple App Stores don’t become a thing on iOS. The reason I like iPhone is that I am assured that apps I download from App Store are not shit and curated by Apple. Apple has vested interest to keep apps made available to be clean and not going to compromise iPhone. Android play store, in comparison, is full of crap and free for all, basically buyer (or downloader) beware. Phone is used by too broad of user g…

"I hope multiple App Stores don’t become a thing on iOS. The reason I like iPhone is that I am assured that apps I download from App Store are not shit and curated by Apple." Then dont install those other app stores and only rely on apples curated list, if other app stores ever become a thing on ios.

It'll end up similarly to macOS AppStore. Developers will avoid it, so user will be forced to use other stores to make his phone useful.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#22

Post by Hamuko » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:27 AM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #15

aero-glide2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not give customers the choice to run other app stores? Imagine if all the software on your laptop must be downloaded from the windows store..

> Why not give customers the choice to run other app stores? Why would Apple want to do so? That would obviously reduce their earnings. > Imagine if all the software on your laptop must be downloaded from the windows store.. I bet that is Microsoft's dream. They can't just do that because of disruption would be too big. But they did something similar with Windows RT, so they definitely looking into it.

>They can't just do that because of disruption would be too big.

Microsoft became rather antitrust shy at some point. Not sure if that's the case anymore but I think it affected many of the decisions.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#23

Post by hpaavola » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:28 AM UTC

hpaavola wrote: post #12

akg_67 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope multiple App Stores don’t become a thing on iOS. The reason I like iPhone is that I am assured that apps I download from App Store are not shit and curated by Apple. Apple has vested interest to keep apps made available to be clean and not going to compromise iPhone. Android play store, in comparison, is full of crap and free for all, basically buyer (or downloader) beware. Phone is used by too broad of user g…

"I hope multiple App Stores don’t become a thing on iOS. The reason I like iPhone is that I am assured that apps I download from App Store are not shit and curated by Apple." Then dont install those other app stores and only rely on apples curated list, if other app stores ever become a thing on ios.

vbezhenar, for some reason there is no reply link visible in your commenr, so have to reply like this.

"It'll end up similarly to macOS AppStore. Developers will avoid it, so user will be forced to use other stores to make his phone useful."

So, kinda like on Androi... No, wait. It wont. Other stores will be in the margins likd on Android.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#24

Post by saurik » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:28 AM UTC

jorams wrote: post #16

> “IAP helps Apple efficiently collect a commission” — for payment processing, but also customer service and the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Without in-app purchases, “we would have to come up with another system to invoice developers, which I think would be a mess.” If Apple let developers tell users about other payment methods, Cook said later, “we would in essence give up our total return on our IP.” App…

> If Apple let developers tell users about other payment methods, Cook said later, “we would in essence give up our total return on our IP.”

Apple believes ("insists"?) that they deserve a cut of your app's revenue--however you might collect the money--because your app is using their "IP" in the form of all the libraries and tooling they nigh unto force you to use to build apps that run on their phone; like, to them, UIKit (I presume), Metal (which many people are only using because Apple refused to implement OpenGL or Vulcan), and (this is rich) apparently even Xcode (wtf: that thing sucks ;P) is so awesome that they deserve 30% of your revenue, and they spent a bunch of time during their testimony trying to show the various ways Epic used--and even liked--their software.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#25

Post by galuggus » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:31 AM UTC

akg_67 wrote: post #8

Hamuko wrote: post #2

Tim Cook's line of argument seemed a bit weird to me. On one hand he's saying that he doesn't know if Apple's customers would be able to distinguish between Apple's good and holy curated store and Epic's filthy shitheap of porn and blackjack, but he's also saying that Apple's customers definitely want Apple's App Store as-is. > Lawyer says, “if people really value Apple’s curation and Apple’s App Store, even if there…

I hope multiple App Stores don’t become a thing on iOS. The reason I like iPhone is that I am assured that apps I download from App Store are not shit and curated by Apple. Apple has vested interest to keep apps made available to be clean and not going to compromise iPhone. Android play store, in comparison, is full of crap and free for all, basically buyer (or downloader) beware. Phone is used by too broad of user g…

China has had multiple app storeson both ios (through widespread jailbreaking- the shop you buy your iphine from will install it for you)and android. The experience is very poor. They are full of scammy, pirated apps(although they do have emulators)

The majority of users just want their phone to work.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#26

Post by emsy » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:32 AM UTC

akg_67 wrote: post #17

hmate9 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im not sure why you got downvoted. Its a legit opinion. I can see the argument for why this is better for iOS users, but it is also painfully obvious how it benefits Apple's monopoly and works against app developers.

I agree that it disproportionately benefits Apple but alternative is free for all like Android and all responsibilities fall on end user (not possible when you have from very young users to very old users, both unsophisticated and sophisticated users).

I just don’t buy the argument that end customers will lose out. The Apple AppStore will still be the default and available. People that want alternatives can get them at their own peril (like responsible adults, can you imagine?). And what percentage of people actually use alt app stores on Android?

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#27

Post by cuu508 » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:32 AM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #7

GrayShade wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best way to bypass their restrictions is to stop buying Apple devices.

I somehow imagine that is a less realistic an expectation.

Why? Are you tied to Apple and unable to leave?

I don't buy Apple devices, and so am not affected by their restrictions.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#28

Post by deergomoo » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:34 AM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #4

Other news on this has quotes from Tim Cook saying that they'd have to find a way to track purchases on IOS and bill developers so that Apple still gets their cut when using other payment processors. For me, this is way over the line. If they want to charge developers to be on their store, fine. I don't have a problem with that. And charging for using them as a payment processor makes sense. Charging for using Apple…

> If a developer isn't using that infrastructure, they don't owe anything

I’ve been following this case and the only thing I can conclude is that their executives genuinely believe that Apple is responsible for all commerce that happens on an iPhone. It’s bordering on delusion.

Without third party developers the iPhone would be nothing by now.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#29

Post by austincheney » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:35 AM UTC

cuu508 wrote: post #27

austincheney wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somehow imagine that is a less realistic an expectation.

Why? Are you tied to Apple and unable to leave? I don't buy Apple devices, and so am not affected by their restrictions.

Then your preexisting boycott makes no difference to the appstore.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#30

Post by Slartie » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:35 AM UTC

jorams wrote: post #16

> “IAP helps Apple efficiently collect a commission” — for payment processing, but also customer service and the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Without in-app purchases, “we would have to come up with another system to invoice developers, which I think would be a mess.” If Apple let developers tell users about other payment methods, Cook said later, “we would in essence give up our total return on our IP.” App…

It just does not make sense.

They are measuring themselves with double standards. On one side they want to defend their App Store tax and its immense height by counting usage of APIs, the store's distribution bandwidth etc. as value the developer pays for via commissions. On the other side they advertise to the world how many millions of free apps they have in their store.

Either those free apps are somehow not using any of their IP, not consuming any bandwidth and not using any support resources, or the entire argument is BS.