Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing • Hacker News Board

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#941

Post by MillenialMan » Sun, May 23, 2021, 10:31 AM UTC

baryphonic wrote: post #449

> Coinbase and Basecamp, which each lost 60 employees after their bosses changed the rules, have apparently been inundated with applications from people wanting to work for politics-free firms. Basecamp lost 20 employees. 60 would be nearly their entire workforce. Coinbase did indeed lose 60 people out of around 1200 at the time.[0] [0] https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2020-10-08...

Worth noting that ignoring the stated justification, Coinbase offered their workforce the limited-time voluntary severance package that was a lot more generous than normal. So it's hard to say how many of those that left did so for political reasons.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#942

Post by permo-w » Sun, May 23, 2021, 10:35 AM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #582

baryphonic wrote: post #449

> Coinbase and Basecamp, which each lost 60 employees after their bosses changed the rules, have apparently been inundated with applications from people wanting to work for politics-free firms. Basecamp lost 20 employees. 60 would be nearly their entire workforce. Coinbase did indeed lose 60 people out of around 1200 at the time.[0] [0] https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2020-10-08...

I wonder if there is such a thing as a "politics free" job listing site?

Do you actually mean “politics free”, or do you mean “progressive politics free”? Because unless the website is made absolutely perfectly with exactly the right intentions, it will become parler or gab for jobs.

Who are the people that care so much that they’ll choose a job based on it? Probably 80% hardline conservatives, 10% aggressively apolitical people and 10% unwoke left types like me

But even if the other 20% might theoretically use a site like that, the 80% hardline conservatives would be deeply off-putting.

It’s why I’d never use Gab or Parler. Yeah the free speech idea is nice, but when it comes down to it, mostly, who are getting banned from Twitter and Facebook? The really abrasive and rude right-wing people

Who feels ostracised in their job? I’d say generally it’s the hardcore right-wing people who lean towards being poor communicators

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#943

Post by MillenialMan » Sun, May 23, 2021, 10:40 AM UTC

smegger001 wrote: post #230

archsurface wrote: post #2

I have no tolerance for politics at work. As far as woke at work goes, not too long ago someone in my office commented on slack "I don't approve of unnecessarily gendered emoji" - I can't even begin to imagine what sort of mind produces such thoughts. First world problems? No idea.

the one that gets me is adding race to emoji. they all used to be 'Simpsons yellow', a skin tone not found in any ethnic or racial group, and as such not representing or excluding any group but now we have black white and other various skin tones for our happy-faces. WHY? Does black happy face mean something different than white happy face isn't happiness universal? why bring race into something that was simply meant…

I have a fun conspiracy theory that the variety of emojis is a subtle plot to increase the barrier to entry against smaller companies. Now they have to invest in a much larger number of graphics to create unique set, which encourages them to use something off-the-shelf and brandless.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#944

Post by actually_a_dog » Sun, May 23, 2021, 10:46 AM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #777

actually_a_dog wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there’s an argument to be made that even memoir and non-fiction are in a way fiction What argument is that? I don't see how you can even say that with a straight face.

Unreliable narrators are a known literary concept for a reason. Combine that with, isn't all fiction reflective of the author and thus narrative in some capacity? And you're about halfway there.

I'm still not buying it, especially when it comes to non-fiction. Any argument that attempts to define "non-X" as "X" is something I can't swallow.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#945

Post by derangedHorse » Sun, May 23, 2021, 10:52 AM UTC

ne0flex wrote: post #877

Moodles wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, get new friends. They sound horrible. So many stories. My skip level manager had me in a 1-on-1 once and said something along the lines: “you probably got the green card because Trump likes your demographic”. (I have an EB-1 extraordinary ability green card, and I assume they were talking about me being straight and white). What the fuck am I supposed to say there? Was absolutely speechless. Moments like that a…

Your skip level manager experience reminds me of an interaction with a diversity officer at my previous employer. The company had hired a diversity officer and she began an initiative that requierd all company employees take an optional cultural course that was essentially something about power dynamics between culture/race. Since it wasn't really relevant to my role, I decided not to take the course as it was option…

If that were me, my next few words back to the diversity officer would probably get me fired depending on how rational the people in charge of my employment were. If they were just as irrational as her, I would definitely be getting the boot though.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#946

Post by alchemst » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:05 AM UTC

antifa wrote: post #888

globular-toast wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what it's like. I've not seen it put like this before, but anxiety inducing is just right, and yes, it is abusive. Take the letter people, for example. They will ridicule people for not understanding the difference between G and Q, for example. Phrases like "if you don't know what X means, you must live under a rock" are common. Then you have the pronoun people who tell us anyone can choose any set of…

> They tell it's easy to relearn your native language It's absolutely the opposite of "relearning" in relative complexity/difficulty. > remember a set of pronouns for each and every person you interact with, from a basically infinite set of combinations. I've literally never met a person of alternative pronouns in real life (both the "unintuitive" variety and the "made up" variety), surely you are exaggerating with u…

Yes, but historically it was a joke, or surprise. Now it's a moral failing.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#947

Post by MillenialMan » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:07 AM UTC

w0de0 wrote: post #853

cblconfederate wrote: post #213

I wonder why companies don't take advantage of such rivalries. Separate the wokes from the unwokes and make them compete who will deliver first

Smarter people - the type that make good engineers who’d deliver early - think critically about everything, not just their job. What you think of as “woke” is often composed of the compassionate, deeply reasoned ideology that such a smart person creates. It acts, practically, as a theodicy, something any coherent non-nihilistic worldview requires. Similarly, many smart engineers arrive at opposing world views with le…

I don't think they're fighting because they hold differing misconceptions. Politics is a bar fight, you won't change people's minds by giving them information because it's not about information. If it was, then the information exchanged in political arguments would actually settle disagreements.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#948

Post by alchemst » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:19 AM UTC

achenatx wrote: post #901

Moodles wrote: post #825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, though it is still a little soul crushing. Obviously making big bucks and providing for your family is more important than debating some cancel culture social justice warrior at work who’ll never be convinced anyway, but listening to some eye rolling inducing faff every day and feeling like if you just told the truth you’d be fired makes you feel weak after a long time. Especially if you vehemently…

how hard is it to just agree? I agree with conservatives and liberals even when they are saying ridiculous things. "Oh yeah, I totally know what you are saying" "mmm hmmm" "Interesting I hadnt thought about it like that before". It is your ego or something else that makes it hard for you to do this.

It seems to be a pretty unhealthy thing, psychologically. It's why 'gaslighting' is its own special term. It's what's often used in psychologically breaking people down.

I think people can cultivate a "I'm keeping my cover up" mentality that helps, but I really do believe it has more costs than you're presenting, and it's not just about "ego" which is a very negatively loaded phrasing.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#949

Post by j_wtf_all_taken » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:21 AM UTC

_-david-_ wrote: post #919

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #889

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republicans started lying in the 90s to stay in power. Trump was a consequence of that. But yeah, pre-Trump they did "only" bend the rules to stay in power, with Trump that changed to openly trying to overthrow democracy. That you can only do by constantly lying. Kinda sucks if you only have to parties, and one becomes a fascist cult. Makes discussing politics impossible, probably. There's just a difference between u…

First of all every political party lies to stay in power. The idea that this is unique to the Republican party is ridiculous. The Democratic consistently lie and bend the rules as well. If you think Republicans are supporting fascism then you either don't know what fascism is or what Republicans support.

Its not me that thinks that. Its, you know, historians and stuff. But what do they know.

There's a difference between some people lying or saying not entirely true things sometimes, and a whole system of belief based on lies. If you believe Republicans and Democrats are on the same level there, there's no point that we continue. I will not convince you of anything and vice versa.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#950

Post by j_wtf_all_taken » Sun, May 23, 2021, 11:30 AM UTC

fapjacks wrote: post #212

efitz wrote: post #165

> according to a new Harris poll commissioned by Paradigm, a diversity consultancy, more than two-thirds of adults in America want to be able to discuss racial-justice issues at work I just plain do not believe this poll.

We live in the age of the lie. It's impossible to take anything at face value, because it seems like every organization we interact with is just lying to us all at every opportunity.

Actually, we live in the age of one group of people constantly lying, and convincing everyone else that everyone lies. Soviet-style propaganda - making everyone believe that the truth cannot be known, everything is possible and everyone lies.

(I am talking about intentional, informed, strategic lies, I am not talking about people that just don't know better etc.)