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Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

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Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#21

Post by jmpman »

BelenusMordred wrote: post #14
dtx1 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In good faith, why not go there? Well that depends on your personal limit of how many concentration camps a country can have before you decide not to visit it. My Personal limit is 1, yours might be 400, in which case i would visit quickly cause china is getting there https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/china-has-buil...

Ok, so by that measure of "travel or not" I should avoid all the top countries on the incarcerated per capita list[1][2]? China comes in at 129th. The US is number 1. While Black people only make up 10% of the population, they make up over 50% of prisoners, 4/5ths of people in American prisons haven't even been convicted of a crime. Should I avoid the United States because of this? Have you not travelled to the Unite…

Interesting statistics. I’m an American, and out of everyone I’ve personally ever known to have gone to jail, one was for rape, another for methamphetamine production, drunk driving, financial crimes. They were all white, and many of them were offered plea bargains and accepted instead of a full trial. Is the plea bargain part of your “haven’t been convicted of a crime?” I don’t personally know of anyone who’s been in jail for a single day that wasn’t guilty.

I don’t question the statistic of 50% of the prison population being black, yet only being 10% of population. I also expect the majority in that prison demographic to be equally as guilty as the criminals I know.

I doubt you’ll find an American who personally knows 10 people that are locked up, and of those, 8 who were falsely imprisoned.

You might find an American who knows 100 people who are locked up, and 1 was possibly falsely imprisoned.

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#22

Post by markus_zhang »

w0de0 wrote: post #19
dtx1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In good faith, why not visit north korea, its a beautiful country, in good faith why not cage kids at the border, they are trespassing after all, in good faith why not bomb news stations in gaza, there are rockets beeing fired from buildings in that general region, in good faith why not drone strike a wedding in pakistan there are terrorists in pakistan after all, in good faith why not spy on every person on the plan…

Goddamnit, dtx1, the people on the other goddamn side of the wire are people. I'm a person, in Colorado, not a party appratchik. I'm a person. I fucking agree with your desire to boycott China in solidarity with the oppressed. What I'm not, and you are being (but are not, since no one is one thing, since you're human), is an asshole. I don't assume the person on the other side of the wire is evil, or incapable of hav…

Well said.

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#23

Post by dtx1 »

w0de0 wrote: post #19
dtx1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In good faith, why not visit north korea, its a beautiful country, in good faith why not cage kids at the border, they are trespassing after all, in good faith why not bomb news stations in gaza, there are rockets beeing fired from buildings in that general region, in good faith why not drone strike a wedding in pakistan there are terrorists in pakistan after all, in good faith why not spy on every person on the plan…

Goddamnit, dtx1, the people on the other goddamn side of the wire are people. I'm a person, in Colorado, not a party appratchik. I'm a person. I fucking agree with your desire to boycott China in solidarity with the oppressed. What I'm not, and you are being (but are not, since no one is one thing, since you're human), is an asshole. I don't assume the person on the other side of the wire is evil, or incapable of hav…

> You're what's wrong with the internet!

Hyperbole much.

> Grow up and understand that you're talking to humans

I'm not talking to humans I'm WRITING in a public Forum which is read by humans. If a little bit of rhetoric to show just how willfully ignorant the question "why in good faith shouldn't i go to china" is too much for you, then the internet might not be a thing that's good for your mental health. Especially an opinion amplifying up vote based circle jerk like ycombinator, reddit, etc.

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#24

Post by dtx1 »

op03 wrote: post #17
dtx1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you should. And you propably should avoid buying from them too. I have bought stuff from china and the USA. It's inevitable, but i am under no illusion that china is a genocidal dictatorship and the racism and structural failures in the US are so bad that my country only extradites prisoners to the US when for example the death penalty is not an option. Living in the EU i only got on passport stamp from Ukraine w…

This is not a healthy way of looking at the world. There are good people anywhere you go. When you choose to disconnect or blame or shame them for the actions of others, your world and understanding of it grows smaller. And who do you think benefits from that?

People are responsible for the actions of their governments. If the government does evil shit, it's the peoples fault for allowing that government to do that. I'm sure there were nice people back in the 40s here in germany, i sure as fuck wouldn't have bought german products as a non-german back then when i had a choice.

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#25

Post by jmpman »

BelenusMordred wrote: post #14
dtx1 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In good faith, why not go there? Well that depends on your personal limit of how many concentration camps a country can have before you decide not to visit it. My Personal limit is 1, yours might be 400, in which case i would visit quickly cause china is getting there https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/china-has-buil...

Ok, so by that measure of "travel or not" I should avoid all the top countries on the incarcerated per capita list[1][2]? China comes in at 129th. The US is number 1. While Black people only make up 10% of the population, they make up over 50% of prisoners, 4/5ths of people in American prisons haven't even been convicted of a crime. Should I avoid the United States because of this? Have you not travelled to the Unite…

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html#slideshows...

This appears to be the best source for US prison/jail population statistics. Still not sure where you’re getting 4/5th of people in American prisons haven’t even been convicted of a crime. It’s showing 470k of 2.3M haven’t been convicted, but are in jail prior to trial. Certainly other countries use a similar system to detain suspects prior to trial?

Are you suggesting that the US shouldn’t lock up suspects prior to trial? Honest question?

Now, back to the flaws in the US system. The referenced web site is hosted by a group of prison reformers who are trying to identify the cause and potential solutions to the current mass incarceration situation in the US.

Does China have similar internal human rights groups questioning the imprisonment in concentration camps of the Uyhgur population? Is anyone in China allowed to host a web site questioning the situation? Again, an honest question.

My understanding is that China does not allow such levels of questioning, even though technically the Chinese constitution allows for free speech. Why? Again, an honest question.

As an American, I can travel to the border and deliver aid to the migrant population to see the situation in person. Can the Chinese even visit the suspected Uhygur camps? Again, an honest question?

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#26

Post by bellyfullofbac »

honkdaddy wrote: post #13
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you American? Do you excuse the migrant holding camps, with its toddler separation? I can see your mind turning gears to come up with reasons why you think those are fine... Where do we draw the line of what sort of "camp" is humane?

Surely one can be against both? What the CCP is doing to the Uyghur population in China is modern genocide, full stop. No amount of whataboutism or America-blaming can change that.

Sure, but a lot of times people rage against one and find excuses why the other is acceptable, making them a hypocrite who thinks they're very moral...

I suppose I'm also just defending my own stance, which is awareness of shit happening around the world, but a "what am I going to do about it" laziness borne out of convenience.

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#27

Post by bellyfullofbac »

dtx1 wrote: post #12
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you American? Do you excuse the migrant holding camps, with its toddler separation? I can see your mind turning gears to come up with reasons why you think those are fine... Where do we draw the line of what sort of "camp" is humane?

I'm not american i'm german. We know a thing or too about concentration camps. And yes i wouldn't have visited america under trump and wouldn't visit them now either. Where i draw the line is when criminals get their fair day in a court vs getting in a camp for being muslim.

So, how do you feel about those those German-taxpayer-funded refugee holding camps in Turkey, and the German funded Libyan coast guard?

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#28

Post by true_religion »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #27
dtx1 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not american i'm german. We know a thing or too about concentration camps. And yes i wouldn't have visited america under trump and wouldn't visit them now either. Where i draw the line is when criminals get their fair day in a court vs getting in a camp for being muslim.

So, how do you feel about those those German-taxpayer-funded refugee holding camps in Turkey, and the German funded Libyan coast guard?

You have to make an exemption for your home nation or else you are committing yourself to becoming a refugee instead of fighting for change within your country.

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#29

Post by dtx1 »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #27
dtx1 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not american i'm german. We know a thing or too about concentration camps. And yes i wouldn't have visited america under trump and wouldn't visit them now either. Where i draw the line is when criminals get their fair day in a court vs getting in a camp for being muslim.

So, how do you feel about those those German-taxpayer-funded refugee holding camps in Turkey, and the German funded Libyan coast guard?

I feel great about them because the reality is the choice between funding these holding camps or doing nothing at all like most countries. Germany took in literal boatloads of refugees and still helper turkey with their cost. Could we have done better&more? Fuck yeah, but you'll be hard pressed to find a country that did more for the refugee crisis than Germany

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#30

Post by bellyfullofbac »

dtx1 wrote: post #29
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, how do you feel about those those German-taxpayer-funded refugee holding camps in Turkey, and the German funded Libyan coast guard?

I feel great about them because the reality is the choice between funding these holding camps or doing nothing at all like most countries. Germany took in literal boatloads of refugees and still helper turkey with their cost. Could we have done better&more? Fuck yeah, but you'll be hard pressed to find a country that did more for the refugee crisis than Germany

Yeah, see, you're just spinning this "let's accept Erdogan's blackmail and give him 6 billion euroes" as a positive thing ("We did good!"), and ignoring all the shit aspects.

People are always so biased...

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