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Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

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Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#11

Post by dtx1 »

w0de0 wrote: post #8
dtx1 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In good faith, why not go there? Well that depends on your personal limit of how many concentration camps a country can have before you decide not to visit it. My Personal limit is 1, yours might be 400, in which case i would visit quickly cause china is getting there https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/china-has-buil...

I believe you missed the “in good faith” part of his comment, and responded with vitriol and the implication that you were parent commentor’s moral superior. Tiresome: do better so we can all have a nicer website to visit.

In good faith, why not visit north korea, its a beautiful country, in good faith why not cage kids at the border, they are trespassing after all, in good faith why not bomb news stations in gaza, there are rockets beeing fired from buildings in that general region, in good faith why not drone strike a wedding in pakistan there are terrorists in pakistan after all, in good faith why not spy on every person on the plant, some of them might be criminal at all.

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#12

Post by dtx1 »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #10
dtx1 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In good faith, why not go there? Well that depends on your personal limit of how many concentration camps a country can have before you decide not to visit it. My Personal limit is 1, yours might be 400, in which case i would visit quickly cause china is getting there https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/china-has-buil...

Are you American? Do you excuse the migrant holding camps, with its toddler separation? I can see your mind turning gears to come up with reasons why you think those are fine... Where do we draw the line of what sort of "camp" is humane?

I'm not american i'm german. We know a thing or too about concentration camps. And yes i wouldn't have visited america under trump and wouldn't visit them now either.

Where i draw the line is when criminals get their fair day in a court vs getting in a camp for being muslim.

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#13

Post by honkdaddy »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #10
dtx1 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In good faith, why not go there? Well that depends on your personal limit of how many concentration camps a country can have before you decide not to visit it. My Personal limit is 1, yours might be 400, in which case i would visit quickly cause china is getting there https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/china-has-buil...

Are you American? Do you excuse the migrant holding camps, with its toddler separation? I can see your mind turning gears to come up with reasons why you think those are fine... Where do we draw the line of what sort of "camp" is humane?

Surely one can be against both?

What the CCP is doing to the Uyghur population in China is modern genocide, full stop. No amount of whataboutism or America-blaming can change that.

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#14

Post by BelenusMordred »

dtx1 wrote: post #6
BelenusMordred wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In good faith, why not go there? It's the second largest economy on the planet and homes 1 in 5 people on the planet. I think everyone should visit at least once if they can. I really enjoyed my time in southern China. It's a strange place that has little enthusiasm for foreigners but a worthwhile experience nonetheless.

> In good faith, why not go there? Well that depends on your personal limit of how many concentration camps a country can have before you decide not to visit it. My Personal limit is 1, yours might be 400, in which case i would visit quickly cause china is getting there https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/china-has-buil...

Ok, so by that measure of "travel or not" I should avoid all the top countries on the incarcerated per capita list[1][2]?

China comes in at 129th. The US is number 1. While Black people only make up 10% of the population, they make up over 50% of prisoners, 4/5ths of people in American prisons haven't even been convicted of a crime.

Should I avoid the United States because of this? Have you not travelled to the United States or purchased products from them because of this stance? Honest question?

It seems to be something well out of my control and I'm accepting of that fact.

Other countries include Turkmenistan, El Salvador, Rwanda, Cuba. I'm highly interested in what places you have visited with these personal requirements before travelling. Never visited Russia, Eastern Europe or South East Asia?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#15

Post by dtx1 »

BelenusMordred wrote: post #14
dtx1 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In good faith, why not go there? Well that depends on your personal limit of how many concentration camps a country can have before you decide not to visit it. My Personal limit is 1, yours might be 400, in which case i would visit quickly cause china is getting there https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/china-has-buil...

Ok, so by that measure of "travel or not" I should avoid all the top countries on the incarcerated per capita list[1][2]? China comes in at 129th. The US is number 1. While Black people only make up 10% of the population, they make up over 50% of prisoners, 4/5ths of people in American prisons haven't even been convicted of a crime. Should I avoid the United States because of this? Have you not travelled to the Unite…

Yes you should. And you propably should avoid buying from them too. I have bought stuff from china and the USA. It's inevitable, but i am under no illusion that china is a genocidal dictatorship and the racism and structural failures in the US are so bad that my country only extradites prisoners to the US when for example the death penalty is not an option.

Living in the EU i only got on passport stamp from Ukraine which i got for visiting Chernobyl and from what i saw living in Ukraine can be absolutely horrible, the poverty is breathtaking if you are used to european standards.

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#16

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

dtx1 wrote: post #12
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you American? Do you excuse the migrant holding camps, with its toddler separation? I can see your mind turning gears to come up with reasons why you think those are fine... Where do we draw the line of what sort of "camp" is humane?

I'm not american i'm german. We know a thing or too about concentration camps. And yes i wouldn't have visited america under trump and wouldn't visit them now either. Where i draw the line is when criminals get their fair day in a court vs getting in a camp for being muslim.

> Where i draw the line is when criminals get their fair day in a court

This falsely implies that laws are consistently just, strongly benefit society in evidence-based ways, aren't regularly composed by lobbyists or in response to party politics and are applied equally.

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#17

Post by op03 »

dtx1 wrote: post #15
BelenusMordred wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so by that measure of "travel or not" I should avoid all the top countries on the incarcerated per capita list[1][2]? China comes in at 129th. The US is number 1. While Black people only make up 10% of the population, they make up over 50% of prisoners, 4/5ths of people in American prisons haven't even been convicted of a crime. Should I avoid the United States because of this? Have you not travelled to the Unite…

Yes you should. And you propably should avoid buying from them too. I have bought stuff from china and the USA. It's inevitable, but i am under no illusion that china is a genocidal dictatorship and the racism and structural failures in the US are so bad that my country only extradites prisoners to the US when for example the death penalty is not an option. Living in the EU i only got on passport stamp from Ukraine w…

This is not a healthy way of looking at the world. There are good people anywhere you go.

When you choose to disconnect or blame or shame them for the actions of others, your world and understanding of it grows smaller. And who do you think benefits from that?

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#18

Post by dtx1 »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #16
dtx1 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not american i'm german. We know a thing or too about concentration camps. And yes i wouldn't have visited america under trump and wouldn't visit them now either. Where i draw the line is when criminals get their fair day in a court vs getting in a camp for being muslim.

> Where i draw the line is when criminals get their fair day in a court This falsely implies that laws are consistently just, strongly benefit society in evidence-based ways, aren't regularly composed by lobbyists or in response to party politics and are applied equally.

This implies that all courts are equal and Theres no difference between chinese concentration camps and for example the swedish prison system

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#19

Post by w0de0 »

dtx1 wrote: post #11
w0de0 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you missed the “in good faith” part of his comment, and responded with vitriol and the implication that you were parent commentor’s moral superior. Tiresome: do better so we can all have a nicer website to visit.

In good faith, why not visit north korea, its a beautiful country, in good faith why not cage kids at the border, they are trespassing after all, in good faith why not bomb news stations in gaza, there are rockets beeing fired from buildings in that general region, in good faith why not drone strike a wedding in pakistan there are terrorists in pakistan after all, in good faith why not spy on every person on the plan…

Goddamnit, dtx1, the people on the other goddamn side of the wire are people. I'm a person, in Colorado, not a party appratchik.

I'm a person. I fucking agree with your desire to boycott China in solidarity with the oppressed. What I'm not, and you are being (but are not, since no one is one thing, since you're human), is an asshole. I don't assume the person on the other side of the wire is evil, or incapable of having a civil discussion, or, ludicrously, as you are doing, a supporter of evil because they advocated tourism in China.

The "good faith" is about talking to someone, not about Pakistan, or spying, or anything else. It's about not assuming I'm evil. It's about you having an assumption of the decency of your interlocutor, and them doing the same for you, even when you disagree, even when you suspect their opinions support evil. This is what allows you to be heard, and it's the only path that you'll ever have to actually convince someone of (your very obvious and very common on HN anyways) opinions.

For chrissakes the parent post didn't even advocate especially going to China to support ethic cleansing, they just suggested its a good idea if you wish to understand the world. Which, objectively, is fucking true. You're what's wrong with the internet! Grow up and understand that you're talking to humans, or go to reddit, please.

Re: Ask HN: If I travel to China, does China have all of my iCloud data?

#20

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

dtx1 wrote: post #18
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where i draw the line is when criminals get their fair day in a court This falsely implies that laws are consistently just, strongly benefit society in evidence-based ways, aren't regularly composed by lobbyists or in response to party politics and are applied equally.

This implies that all courts are equal and Theres no difference between chinese concentration camps and for example the swedish prison system

> This implies that all courts are equal

LOL. It doesn't imply that at all. It repeatedly hints at corruption in justice systems.

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