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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#691

Post by kortilla »

sudosysgen wrote: post #550
steverb wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your labor and skills are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the owner for money. They may tolerate (and even enjoy) your personal quirks and causes, but they are paying you to get things done that they don't have the time or skill to do themselves. [Edit: Accidentally left ou a letter]

"Your labour and are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the lord for the privilege to work this land" "Your labour and skills are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the owner to pay back your debt and earn your freedom" You can use that logic to justify any oppression as long as you frame it in the langua…

> It's not a choice. You have a (metaphorical) pistol to your head to engage with the system as it is, die, or be killed.

This is ridiculous. In the US people constantly quit to start small businesses, work for other businesses, or just not work at all. There is zero threat of violence if you choose not to work.

Additionally, there is no concept of debt slavery at all outside of the military (which is probably the most successful socialist institution in the US). There is no forced labor to pay down debt.

> private property in absentia (ultimately based on theft, might I add)

Based on theft from who? If I grow some cucumbers in my garden, who have I stolen them from?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#692

Post by xallarap »

8note wrote: post #436
eric4smith wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Most businesses are started with neither. But with the sweat off the back of the founders. When will we acknowledge that one of the most noble pursuits in human history is to provide paid employment for your fellow man??

Makes you wonder why all of these fancy tech businesses show up in California, as opposed to Niger. If all you need is this hard work, surely the wealthy businesses would be distributed all around the world

Wanna make a deepdive into cultural aspects of the stanford prison experiment?

Nah, just watch tokyo gore police.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#693

Post by knorker »

lanstin wrote: post #511
jonas21 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a pretty uncharitable interpretation of the comment. I think what they're saying is that you should view an employment relationship as an exchange, where you get money (which can be used to fulfill your basic needs), and your employer gets your labor for a certain number of hours per week. As you are voluntarily exchanging your labor for money, it's reasonable that the focus of the workplace should be…

I disagree. They are paying you because of your judgment and character to do what they want in the best possible way. When employees just go along to get along, that is when company sized disasters happen. You have an obligation to speak up for what you perceive as good and oppose what you see is evil. That is a part of being a professional, it is taking responsibility for the big picture. Why do customers want this,…

But how does this include political campaigns about Israel? What you describe sounds more like keeping the workplace ethical, not changing the mission of the business to be a political NGO.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#694

Post by deepGem »

wpietri wrote: post #374
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. I disagree. The notion that humans turn into employer-owned production machinery for 8 hours a day is one very particular way to conceptualize work. But it ignores both the individual as a whole person and the society that contains and enables the workplace to function. To me, even as a former and perhaps future entrepr…

I tend to agree to this viewpoint. Most of the impactful products are built by people who are inspired to build the product, sometimes even to the extent of hating the entrepreneur. For them work is almost a part of life.I don't mean that such people think of work all the time and don't have other interests in life, but largely what they are building is kind of ingrained into their life. It's really difficult to separate what they do from who they are. Almost every leader wants their team to exhibit these characters albeit on a spectrum.

But what comes with that is the personality attributes, political viewpoints etc. It's hard to disagree on some fundamental traits and still continue to work together. At least in these teams which tend to get closely knit.

This could potentially lead to homogenous teams which we don't want.We want teams to hash out diverse and conflicting ideas. Really hard balance to achieve.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#695

Post by follower »

smegger001 wrote: post #163
jdgoesmarching wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to say, this is the most chilling HN sentence I’ve ever read. The totality of our existence from 8-5 is not owed to someone who profits from our labor and skills because they got lucky with some seed money or an inheritance a decade ago. That’s just the divine right of kings with extra steps.

It is not "divine right of king" by any stretch of the imagination. It is a contract for exchange of service between to parties. Because you agreed to exchange their money for your labor. During that time you are obligated to do what you are agreed to be paid to do under the conditions agreed to at time of hire. And yes they are owed your skills because they are paying you for them, that is how any exchange of servic…

> And yes they are owed your skills because they are paying you for them

I'm unaware of any typical employer ever paying wages/salary in advance, it's always in arrears, so on that basis there's no point at which the employee owes the employer their skills.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#696

Post by drdeca »

nick-of-time wrote: post #481
ramblerman wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment that we are more than replacable robots. But I think for a long time 'a whole person' referred to your character, your hobbies, your family, your quirks. And politics was a small, and usually private part of that. We are in a time now where politics is tribal and has usurped a huge part of people's identities. To the point they see the other tribe as the devil merely by association. And I…

Politics is an expression of your moral values. It's always been an important part of a person.

I think there is a conflation between multiple senses of “political” in this topic.

Let’s put it this way: I shouldn’t be socially expected to express anything which would suggest that I will be voting for a particular party.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#697

Post by knorker »

mikojan wrote: post #680
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? You spent most of your waking hours at work. The slave mentality required to basically turn off your moral compass while you are there (for 8+ hours) - that's mind bending to me

But this petition is not about changing the place you work at, but a place far far away.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#698

Post by knorker »

8note wrote: post #424
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

The entrepreneur is perfectly willing to use my work to push political changes. I don't see why I shouldn't be able to too. If you want to get politics away from the office, stop giving the wealthy and corporations political power

Because they pay you for the work?

You can use the money to further your political goals.

If you go to a pizza place and pay for a pizza, you don't expect them to alter the deal after you pay, and instead give the pizza to someone homeless without asking you or refunding you.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#699

Post by coldtea »

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

>People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs.

The canonical point of a workplace should be to serve society!

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#700

Post by kodah »

8note wrote: post #474
fighterpilot wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are, and the reason for this was given in the GP: "It's as though there is a bargain" The board and executives know who weilds the stick. If it's the left that generally wants higher corporate taxes, more regulation, more anti-trust, and they control the media, then they're the ones that you want to appease as a bargain. Adopting wokeness is significantly cheaper than all the alternatives. The right mostly wants…

The right mostly wants companies to push the politics of their owners, ensuring that the payments keep flowing from the companies to the right wing leaders.

https://howmuch.net/articles/the-30-biggest-political-donors...

Democrats get paid a lot more by companies than Republicans do. In fact, drastically so.

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