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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#461

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. I disagree. The notion that humans turn into employer-owned production machinery for 8 hours a day is one very particular way to conceptualize work. But it ignores both the individual as a whole person and the society that contains and enables the workplace to function. To me, even as a former and perhaps future entrepr…

I agree with your sentiment that we are more than replacable robots.

But I think for a long time 'a whole person' referred to your character, your hobbies, your family, your quirks. And politics was a small, and usually private part of that.

We are in a time now where politics is tribal and has usurped a huge part of people's identities. To the point they see the other tribe as the devil merely by association.

And I could see how that would cause conflicts in a business that are detrimental to the bottom line

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#462
post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political beliefs are a protected class in practically every first world country, including the US. If an employee was a member of a fascist party it'd quite literally be illegal to fire them on that basis.

No, political beliefs are a protected class in practically every first world country, but excluding the US; in most states (excluding, IIRC, California - which matters a lot here) it would be legal for a private employer to fire an employee for being a member of the Democrat or Republican party. The key employee anti-discrimination law is the Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibits employers from di…

This is the correct answer.

Believe it or not it’s completely legal to fire someone in California for going to a black lives matter protest or a conservative conference.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. We've had this discussion already, but claiming sexist views is going to be a problem for you whether you do it at work or elsewhere because of how laws around hostile work environments and notice work. Particularly, if you go on to actually create a hostile work environment (as one might reasonably suppose you will, having publicly espoused the relevant…

> claiming sexist views This is a pretty vague statement especially as OP mentioned fiction. Not some book espousing his political views. You can pick most of the great authors and find a character or scene that was obscene, but it would be unfair to cherry pick 2-3 sentences, post them on twitter and pretend this represented them.

> This is a pretty vague statement especially as OP mentioned fiction. Not some book espousing his political views.

The book in question is a memoir by Antonio Garcia Martinez from what I’ve read. While there’s an argument to be made that even memoir and non-fiction are in a way fiction, this wasn’t an outright work of fiction. It contained misogynistic statements you’d expect to be true to how the author thinks because of the context of the work.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#464

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

> There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. We've had this discussion already, but claiming sexist views is going to be a problem for you whether you do it at work or elsewhere because of how laws around hostile work environments and notice work. Particularly, if you go on to actually create a hostile work environment (as one might reasonably suppose you will, having publicly espoused the relevant…

You, asdfasgasdgasdg, would need to convince anyone you are talking any sense at all.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#465

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

The content of what was said matters. Stop trying to equate two situations that are only superficially similar.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#466

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

You act like this is something new. Writers have used pseudonyms for as long as writing has existed, often to avoid this issue.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, political beliefs are a protected class in practically every first world country, but excluding the US; in most states (excluding, IIRC, California - which matters a lot here) it would be legal for a private employer to fire an employee for being a member of the Democrat or Republican party. The key employee anti-discrimination law is the Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibits employers from di…

This is the correct answer. Believe it or not it’s completely legal to fire someone in California for going to a black lives matter protest or a conservative conference.

Do you have any references? This is somewhat surprising to me.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#468
post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The connection to politics in your scenario isn’t clear to me. Are people having charged discussions on Slack about whether men should be allowed to harass women? I would think the scenario would be an open and shut case of going to associate relations to complain about the harassment. No real political discussion to be had.

That's really optimistic. Turns out it doesn't work and usually ends the woman's career at that company -- or maybe she gets some justice and then is destroyed by the folks on the internet who thinks she's just a feminazi b*(&. (I'm showing my age here I guess; I don't know the terminology of kids these days.) Look up Jennifer Blakely, or Kara Woo, or see the 2018 report analyzing 46,210 harassment claims filed with…

Yeah, all of this, and the idea that any of it is going to change without people actively fighting against it is asinine, honestly. Reporting something through the HR chain is almost never effective (if you’re even in a big enough company to have HR, and you’re not being harassed by the very managers to whom you might otherwise report), and it’s often detrimental. Have we all forgotten that HR exists to protect the company, not the employees?

I don’t know what the best way to solve problems like this is, but the solution is probably not “trust the same authority that engendered the culture to fix it.”

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've watched the Simpsons, the "Simpsons Yellow" is white, it is clearly demonstrated in the show - Apu isn't yellow! It undermines your whole point!

fine make them cyan then and my point would still stand

But your point doesn't stand because they aren't cyan!

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. We've had this discussion already, but claiming sexist views is going to be a problem for you whether you do it at work or elsewhere because of how laws around hostile work environments and notice work. Particularly, if you go on to actually create a hostile work environment (as one might reasonably suppose you will, having publicly espoused the relevant…

You would never be able to hire a felon for anything since on that theory, the felon had done something outside of work that being a criminal act, might scare someone at work who had to work around them, even though their behavior at work was perfect.

I’ll care about sexists losing jobs when society cares about felons not being able to find employment decades after the fact.

What had been happening instead was that sexists were failing upwards, until recently when employee power finally has a say in who works with them

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