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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#451

Post by PeterisP »

0xy wrote: post #428
ir123 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. That's where you are wrong. He wrote some things he genuinely believed in, and its reasonable to assume that his actions will follow similar lines. Would I want a self proclaimed nazi to work with me? Hell no. Would I want a misogynist to work with me? No.

Political beliefs are a protected class in practically every first world country, including the US. If an employee was a member of a fascist party it'd quite literally be illegal to fire them on that basis.

No, political beliefs are a protected class in practically every first world country, but excluding the US; in most states (excluding, IIRC, California - which matters a lot here) it would be legal for a private employer to fire an employee for being a member of the Democrat or Republican party.

The key employee anti-discrimination law is the Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibits employers from discriminating against applicants and employees on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, and national origin - but not political affiliation.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#452

Post by 3gg »

ir123 wrote: post #439
0xy wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political beliefs are a protected class in practically every first world country, including the US. If an employee was a member of a fascist party it'd quite literally be illegal to fire them on that basis.

That sucks tbh. It should be legal to fire a fascist.

Said no fascist ever.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#453

Post by randoramax »

narrator wrote: post #431
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. We've had this discussion already, but claiming sexist views is going to be a problem for you whether you do it at work or elsewhere because of how laws around hostile work environments and notice work. Particularly, if you go on to actually create a hostile work environment (as one might reasonably suppose you will, having publicly espoused the relevant…

You would never be able to hire a felon for anything since on that theory, the felon had done something outside of work that being a criminal act, might scare someone at work who had to work around them, even though their behavior at work was perfect.

Ex-Felons have paid their debt to society, or at least get should be considered as such. And still, it's harder for them to get jobs.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#454

Post by nradov »

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #150
ixacto wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advocating for what things exactly? It might be a strawman, but I’m going to guess and it would be something like an end to perceived workplace raceism/sexism/*isms. If you let in political advocacy movements from the left do you really want political movements from the right? Or is it just ok if the left is advocating for it? I kinda think the left is trying to have their equity cake and eat it too… To some people (…

This is a really disingenuous false equivalency. First, you're implying that all opinions are equally valid. That is... I'll be polite and simply call it nonsense. "Gay people should have rights" and "gay people shouldn't have rights" are not opinions of equal value, and it's not "eating your cake and having it too" to say that the latter opinion is unwelcome. Second, there's a very clear relationship between the "le…

Your opinion is not valid. Guns aren't necessarily political. Should I refrain from asking work colleagues who they think is likely to medal in the 2021 Olympics women's skeet shooting event?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#455

Post by randoramax »

0xy wrote: post #428
ir123 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. That's where you are wrong. He wrote some things he genuinely believed in, and its reasonable to assume that his actions will follow similar lines. Would I want a self proclaimed nazi to work with me? Hell no. Would I want a misogynist to work with me? No.

Political beliefs are a protected class in practically every first world country, including the US. If an employee was a member of a fascist party it'd quite literally be illegal to fire them on that basis.

Yeah, but if you hire a fascist and you know they're a fascist in a company where the majority of your workers is not a fascist, you're going to have problems. Even if you discover after hiring them that they're fascist you'll have unhappy workers. You'll find a way to fire that fascist or lose the rest of the company.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#456

Post by smegger001 »

JamisonM wrote: post #409
smegger001 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not upset that there is black, i am bothered that something that was implicitly neutral is not neutral anymore. that it can now be used as yet another point in which to divide than unify.

If you've watched the Simpsons, the "Simpsons Yellow" is white, it is clearly demonstrated in the show - Apu isn't yellow! It undermines your whole point!

fine make them cyan then and my point would still stand

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#457

Post by baryphonic »

jfengel wrote: post #400
ThinkBeat wrote: post #371

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

If only he had a union. But the "right to work" is the right to be fired for any reason or none.

California is definitely not a right-to-work state.[0] It does have at-will employment, just like almost every other state. But Apple employees are free to unionize at any time and, if successful, require dues for unionized employees.

In fact, if CA is so friendly to unions and big tech companies are so progressive, why are none of the big tech companies unionized?

[0]https://statelaws.findlaw.com/california-law/california-righ...

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#458

Post by krapp »

betwixthewires wrote: post #338
krapp wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're talking about expanding the color palette on a set of icons. If no one is angry about it, why do people keep complaining about it? >The point is that no one should care about race, but everyone all of the sudden is. This doesn't read like the opinion of someone who isn't angry about something.

I think what people are getting at with this (and trying to be cordial about it as best they can) is that the only people that want to have a separate image for every color person on the planet are racists.

How are they racist?

What races are they discriminating against? What racial stereotypes are they expressing?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#459

Post by lanstin »

0xy wrote: post #428
ir123 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. That's where you are wrong. He wrote some things he genuinely believed in, and its reasonable to assume that his actions will follow similar lines. Would I want a self proclaimed nazi to work with me? Hell no. Would I want a misogynist to work with me? No.

Political beliefs are a protected class in practically every first world country, including the US. If an employee was a member of a fascist party it'd quite literally be illegal to fire them on that basis.

I don’t think that is really true. The government can’t suppress speech due to political disagreements with it but private individuals (and “legal individuals” aka corporations) can discriminate based on political beliefs, even religious beliefs. Gender, race, national origin, these are traditional protected categories, and we are adding more as a consensus grows that other sorts of prejudice are harmful to the social compact, but you can be fired for thinking differently in a heartbeat. As mentioned elsewhere, unions can even out some of the capriciously used power of the bosses, but otherwise I think the law is not protecting anyone.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#460

Post by solidasparagus »

smegger001 wrote: post #230
archsurface wrote: post #2

I have no tolerance for politics at work. As far as woke at work goes, not too long ago someone in my office commented on slack "I don't approve of unnecessarily gendered emoji" - I can't even begin to imagine what sort of mind produces such thoughts. First world problems? No idea.

the one that gets me is adding race to emoji. they all used to be 'Simpsons yellow', a skin tone not found in any ethnic or racial group, and as such not representing or excluding any group but now we have black white and other various skin tones for our happy-faces. WHY? Does black happy face mean something different than white happy face isn't happiness universal? why bring race into something that was simply meant…

When using emojis to convey their emotions, some people prefer their emojis to match what they look like. It's not a big deal - certainly not worth complaining about a feature that makes some people happier. The impact of online avatars on self-perception and outcomes is an interesting topic that's worth looking into (it's not limited to race).

But more importantly, why shouldn't a black person be able to use a black emoji? We have the technology.

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