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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#351

Post by betwixthewires »

mk81 wrote: post #256
madrox wrote: post #144

I'm not sure where we go from here, but not being able to escape anxiety-inducing situations in a workplace is the definition of a toxic work environment. I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work," but at the FAANG I worked at, politics was impossible to avoid. Even the desire to be apolitical is itself criticized at worst and not respected at best. Work doesn't afford the use of the…

>I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work" Why not?

Because this experiment has obviously failed and this attempt to create a less toxic work environment through activism has resulted in a thinly veiled attempt to create a more toxic work environment for those who do not want to conform to neo-marxist orthodoxy.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#352

Post by justbored123 »

kokanator wrote: post #23

> Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics—and failing Really? Don't be surprised when you manipulate the political sphere outside your walls in ways never seen in the history of the world and that politic creeps inside and devours you from within.

Buddy, have you heard about lobbyist??? You really need to get out of your own bubble.

Manipulating the "political sphere outside your walls" is what companies do from time immemorial. And the idea that propaganda online is more influential that literally writing the laws and legally bribing the politicians that the people that propaganda is supposed to influence voted is simply laughable.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#353

Post by PurpleFoxy »

caymanjim wrote: post #135
Opt_Out_Fed_IRS wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your labor and skills are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the owner for money. But if everybody is woke (and that is the case given that we are talking about tech and California) then the company has no choice but to accept wokeness because the money becomes a non factor if it can't be offered to somebody who is not woke . The supply of non woke workers ju…

There is an enormous supply of workers who don't want social and political issues in the workplace, but silently acquiesce because saying anything gets you branded negatively and quickly canceled. It doesn't matter if you agree but prefer keeping it out of the workplace; you must either support the woke brigade or keep your mouth shut.

Keeping your mouth shut is no longer an option “silence is violence” and “not taking a position is a position” have taken over. The issue at Basecamp was that activists were harassing other employees to get them to make public statements on issues.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#354

Post by PeterisP »

iandanforth wrote: post #224

I see a lot of anti-politics-at-work commentary here. This makes me wonder what the posters would do working for companies that have an explicit social agenda. If the politics are baked into the company, does that void the "politics and work should be separate" point?

I'm not sure if it should void that point.

For an example of "an explicit social agenda" I'm thinking about the various cases of explicitly Christian companies with a business that's not directly religious (i.e. not a church or the like) but with an explicit agenda of strictly keeping to the social values of their particular choosing. Should all employees share their values? IMHO not. Should they be able to require that employees share their values? IMHO not. Should employees with contradictory values (in that particular example, let's say abortion policy) be able to feel psychologically safe working there? IMHO yes. So from that perspective, if we consider some company with an explicit "woke" social agenda, the same things should apply - in my view, an anti-abortionist campaigner should be able to work for a feminist boss in a feminist company just as a pro-abortion-rights campaigner should be able to work for a Mormon boss in a company fully owned by a religious fundamentalist family, and the same for any other politically charged topics. Obviously, that doesn't work well now, especially in all the "fire at-will" USA states, but that's how I feel it should be.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#355

Post by ipaddr »

justbored123 wrote: post #310
smegger001 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the one that gets me is adding race to emoji. they all used to be 'Simpsons yellow', a skin tone not found in any ethnic or racial group, and as such not representing or excluding any group but now we have black white and other various skin tones for our happy-faces. WHY? Does black happy face mean something different than white happy face isn't happiness universal? why bring race into something that was simply meant…

Step back, take a deep breath and read what you wrote. You are saying that we should not care, but you clearly care if the face is black ... So, somebody decided that he would like to have a black emoji because he like it that and you decided to make an issue out of it ... and accuse the other person of what you yourself are doing ... If you don't see it is because you don't want to see it. "Why do you see the speck…

He is saying that by changing it from neutral to personalized skin tones we have made things more personal and lost something special. Polarized.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#356

Post by usaar333 »

efitz wrote: post #165

> according to a new Harris poll commissioned by Paradigm, a diversity consultancy, more than two-thirds of adults in America want to be able to discuss racial-justice issues at work I just plain do not believe this poll.

Source is at https://www.paradigmiq.com/2021/05/19/nearly-7-in-10-america....

First off, note the wording (which is actually "we should be able to discuss racial justice issues at work"). This question is a bit open to interpretation, but I'd interpret as "employees should not be prohibited from discussing racial justice issues". Which I certainly agree with... I would not want my employer censoring private conversations.

The 66% thinking businesses should take action on racial injustice issues is reasonable... most people would want their business taking action against racial discrimination or harassment internally at the bare minimum.

What's more controversial are specific DEI programs at the workspace (diversity training, race-targetted recruiting bonuses, company donations for certain causes, etc.) -- the survey high-level doesn't go into that.

Finally, this is an online poll where "no estimate of theoretical sampling error can be calculated", so I suppose there is heavy room for error.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#357

Post by throwaway3699 »

hypertexthero wrote: post #284
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> “The proximity of his workplace and his home is convenient, but there is a serious political motivation underlying it, too. When Steidl was a teen-ager, he spent several weeks volunteering at Auschwitz, clearing paths for visitors and sleeping in a former barracks. His father had served in the German Army, and Steidl participated in a program that had been established, he said, to show young Germans “what the paren…

We're not actually trying to equate working on email products at Basecamp to working at Auschwitz are we? It's an interesting anecdote but it hardly serves a useful function here.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#358

Post by Rapzid »

ohazi wrote: post #350
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. Have you ever worked for a large company, that's flush with cash, that likes to offer borderline ridiculous perks to employees (e.g. Google, Facebook, etc.)? Usually there are relatively few people at these companies who do the work that actually moves the proverbial needle. There are a lot of people at these companies…

> day care for adults

I've never heard it put like this. Amazing. I shy away from these places towards small to mid size companies with more critical work..

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#359

Post by phist_mcgee »

open0 wrote: post #331
TimTheTinker wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is because "woke" is racism in reverse. As long as there's racism (in any direction), color matters. You can't treat or think of people differently on the basis of race without knowing who is in what race. The last thing "woke" people want is for discrimination on the basis of race to disappear, or for the color of people's skin to no longer factor in to how they are judged or treated. Edit: agreed with a…

This is such horseshit. You people on this website are far more of problem for the world than the crowd of woke 20-somethngs that as a group have very little power or money.

"You people", and the cycle continues..

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#360

Post by PurpleFoxy »

halostatue wrote: post #346
paul_f wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually you can. And it has been done successfully for decades. Proselytizing has no place in the workplace.

…for mostly straight white men, making more money than more qualified women while getting away with sexual harassment. Advocating for equal treatment isn’t proselytization, it’s asking for treatment like an equal human being.

“Straight white man” has become a buzzword now. Is there any evidence that any of these companies trying to ban politics were oppressing gay people?

As a gay person in tech I have never felt oppressed or heard anyone else report such a thing.

If Basecamp was engaging in this kind of discrimination then the story would be very different.

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