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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

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341–350 of 1001 posts

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#341

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

>think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition...

We've set commerce at the center of our society and gone so far as to grant corporations "personhood", allowing them to wield enormous political influence. As such, they're able to donate unlimited sums of money under the guise of "free speech". With regard to its effect on the spirit of a functioning democracy, this is illogical to say the least.

To some extent, this outsized influence disenfranchises the citizen voter. So, given this system, it's actually quite logical for workers to express their social/political preferences through the corporations for which they work. It's a means of reclaiming some of their power by influencing an entity that itself has more influence.

If this deference to corporations were not the case, then I might be inclined to agree with you.

>*People are human. But work is work."

At least here in the U.S., our work-life balance is totally out of whack. We're expected to give so much to employers and invest so much of ourselves in the success of the company. We take time away from our families, etc. As such, the lines between our personal and work lives are already quite blurred. So I think this is where it seems strange to some that they are expected to leave select parts of their personal lives at the door.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The supply of non woke workers just isn't there The responses to the Basecamp and Coinbase announcements were equally mixed between people who wanted to avoid them, and people who want to seek them out. There are plenty of people who want work to be about working together on work. I for one want work to be welcoming and productive for everyone. Ironically, the best way to accomplish that is to focus on work, and not…

> I for one want work to be welcoming and productive for everyone. Ironically, the best way to accomplish that is to focus on work, and not non-work. Sure, if you’re a white, middle-aged, straight, cis male (speaking as one myself). But for other people, it’s not as easy to “leave your politics at home”, especially if you’re politics are “can I please be paid fairly in comparison to other workers” or “sorry, I’m late…

you say that everything is political and I do not disagree. But I consider it is a essential professional skill to be able to at least minimise the prevalence and effects of political ideas in the workplace and anywhere where the subject and debate is not appropriate. Too many people are outright declaring they are entirely set against even considering adapting to the needs and requirements of and elementary civil courtesy and manners towards paymasters who already not only provide exceptional levels of pay and additional lifestyle enhancements alongside a job but also nothing less than incomparable freedom of expression in your actual performance of your work which is easily recognised by comparison with your freedom of solutions for the work involved in any other engineering job.

edit what baffles me - translation : disgusts me - is the total lack of consideration given by politically activist employees to their colleagues. It's time for this behaviour and practicing of intolerance to no longer be tolerated.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#343
post #30

The weird thing is how it’s all seems so co-ordinated. As if the HR departments of every firm get their marching orders from some central advocacy group.

HR is a reasonably well-paying clerical field amenable to those with non-technical degrees. This and its human-orientation makes it a natural fit for soft-science/sociology majors working outside their field.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#344
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics at work is still politics at work. I'm generalizing a bit here for sake of the point. There is a large amount of people advocating that other people with leanings and opinions should have their services, contracts, and professional relationships cancelled. Based on their personal politics. This cuts both ways. If companies can rightfully do that to customers, then it is also legit for them to do it to employ…

Where do you draw the line between "personal politics" and "fundamentally wrong?" In the 1950s and 1960s some people felt the line was segregation. The problem is when human decency is equated to "personal politics" (or vice versa). Some of the lines are obvious to me, but others are more blurred. At the end of the day, reasonable people can work around those fuzzy boundaries without issue.

Many of the people on both extremes of “I want only work, never politics, at work; the world was perfect in 1948” and “work is an ideal place to bring my politics into, because others cannot escape hearing me and my crusades” are quite incapable of working around those fuzzy boundaries without issue.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#345

I have no tolerance for politics at work. As far as woke at work goes, not too long ago someone in my office commented on slack "I don't approve of unnecessarily gendered emoji" - I can't even begin to imagine what sort of mind produces such thoughts. First world problems? No idea.

the one that gets me is adding race to emoji. they all used to be 'Simpsons yellow', a skin tone not found in any ethnic or racial group, and as such not representing or excluding any group but now we have black white and other various skin tones for our happy-faces. WHY? Does black happy face mean something different than white happy face isn't happiness universal? why bring race into something that was simply meant…

I don’t think everyone interpreted “Simpsons yellow” as race-less. Certainly the show didn’t - On the show, Homer identifies as a white male IIRC, and some characters (like Apu) are not yellow.

You have to pick some skin tone for the default; just floating features would be off putting.

Believing that the pan-white default of “simpsons yellow” is raceless because you feel represented in it excludes that others might not feel represented in it. And it’s a small thing to have fixed that costs you basically nothing.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#346
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The workplace is 8+ hours of most people's day. You cannot divorce it from the very real problems that exist in the world.

Actually you can. And it has been done successfully for decades. Proselytizing has no place in the workplace.

…for mostly straight white men, making more money than more qualified women while getting away with sexual harassment.

Advocating for equal treatment isn’t proselytization, it’s asking for treatment like an equal human being.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#347

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> “The proximity of his workplace and his home is convenient, but there is a serious political motivation underlying it, too. When Steidl was a teen-ager, he spent several weeks volunteering at Auschwitz, clearing paths for visitors and sleeping in a former barracks. His father had served in the German Army, and Steidl participated in a program that had been established, he said, to show young Germans “what the paren…

People don't spontaneously decide that conducting murder in a concentration camp is a morally acceptable career path. The Nazis succeeded in the first place because they injected their politics into every aspect of life. Politics-free spaces create additional friction that impedes the rise of radical ideology.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The supply of non woke workers just isn't there The responses to the Basecamp and Coinbase announcements were equally mixed between people who wanted to avoid them, and people who want to seek them out. There are plenty of people who want work to be about working together on work. I for one want work to be welcoming and productive for everyone. Ironically, the best way to accomplish that is to focus on work, and not…

I avoid woke workplaces. I’m much, much happier. I don’t give a shit about politics or activism and it just gets under my skin.

Agreed, as long as there isn’t some major issue internally (sexism/racism) that affects your ability to work, or the work itself is an issue (being made to create distasteful content for example) I don’t want to think about politics at all.

I don’t want to have outside matters pushed on me while working regardless of how much I agree with them.

I’ll happily engage in activism outside of work where people aren’t forced to sit around me every day.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#349

I have no tolerance for politics at work. As far as woke at work goes, not too long ago someone in my office commented on slack "I don't approve of unnecessarily gendered emoji" - I can't even begin to imagine what sort of mind produces such thoughts. First world problems? No idea.

the one that gets me is adding race to emoji. they all used to be 'Simpsons yellow', a skin tone not found in any ethnic or racial group, and as such not representing or excluding any group but now we have black white and other various skin tones for our happy-faces. WHY? Does black happy face mean something different than white happy face isn't happiness universal? why bring race into something that was simply meant…

"Simpsons yellow" actually represents white people on the actual Simpsons TV show. The other characters who represent the non-white population all have different skin colors that line up with the people of those cultures or races. So even though nobody's actual skin color is Simpons yellow, culturally we already were representing white skin as that color.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#350

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs.

Have you ever worked for a large company, that's flush with cash, that likes to offer borderline ridiculous perks to employees (e.g. Google, Facebook, etc.)?

Usually there are relatively few people at these companies who do the work that actually moves the proverbial needle. There are a lot of people at these companies who only ever get to work on some vanity project motivated by internal politics. Work that literally doesn't matter, that the owners don't actually care about, and that's eventually going to get thrown away after being used as some sort of bargaining chip.

But smart people often want to feel like they're doing "important" work, so we dress it up with goals and deadlines and KPIs to make it seem important.

A lot of these workplaces can more accurately be described as "day care for adults."

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