Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing • Hacker News Board

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#201

Post by lliamander » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:10 AM UTC

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #150

ixacto wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advocating for what things exactly? It might be a strawman, but I’m going to guess and it would be something like an end to perceived workplace raceism/sexism/*isms. If you let in political advocacy movements from the left do you really want political movements from the right? Or is it just ok if the left is advocating for it? I kinda think the left is trying to have their equity cake and eat it too… To some people (…

This is a really disingenuous false equivalency. First, you're implying that all opinions are equally valid. That is... I'll be polite and simply call it nonsense. "Gay people should have rights" and "gay people shouldn't have rights" are not opinions of equal value, and it's not "eating your cake and having it too" to say that the latter opinion is unwelcome. Second, there's a very clear relationship between the "le…

> First, you're implying that all opinions are equally valid. That is... I'll be polite and simply call it nonsense.

I agree the idea opinions are all equally valid is nonsense. It's also very likely we disagree in many of our political opinions.

At the end of the day we still share this society. Unless your plan of saying my opinions are "unwelcome" includes forcing me out of this society, how do you expect that to play out?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#202

Post by isaacremuant » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:10 AM UTC

You don't really see them running away.

The big 4/5 are doubling down in their wokeness and courses that have a very American & democrat slant with absolutely no space for discourse because there's really nothing to gain, risking your job to fight a corporate machine that analyzes woke actions as a sort of compliance of PR to keep appearances.

You either sing the political tune or try to remain neutral. Censorship of a lot of ideas/opinions have become so normal and demanded even (FB, Twitter, Google, etc) that "those that bring themselves" will mostly be those furthering the woke narrative.

It's funny how Israel creates a conundrum because it's the one place were the bipartisan support from the US clashes with the woke view so they're trying to suppress it as fast as possible.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#203

Post by smegger001 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:10 AM UTC

ghufran_syed wrote: post #126

geofft wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. Absolutely not, and for a very clear reason: the aims of the entrepreneurs are to make money and reduce costs. My aim, in asking for raises, is to increase costs. Are you saying this is inappropriate? I am at work because the company and I came to a mutually beneficial arrangement. They need things done that are better…

presumably you would also be ok with getting paid less money in exchange for more political freedoms at work?

as I am one that doesn't seek to evangelize my political views at work, I would rather go the other direction pay me more if I agree not too bring them up. (and that includes political causes I agree with. I don't like it because it inevitably causes arguments between other coworkers that hold opposing views and i have to put up with both sides.)

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#204

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:10 AM UTC

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

[deleted]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#205

Post by BackBlast » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:10 AM UTC

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #150

ixacto wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advocating for what things exactly? It might be a strawman, but I’m going to guess and it would be something like an end to perceived workplace raceism/sexism/*isms. If you let in political advocacy movements from the left do you really want political movements from the right? Or is it just ok if the left is advocating for it? I kinda think the left is trying to have their equity cake and eat it too… To some people (…

This is a really disingenuous false equivalency. First, you're implying that all opinions are equally valid. That is... I'll be polite and simply call it nonsense. "Gay people should have rights" and "gay people shouldn't have rights" are not opinions of equal value, and it's not "eating your cake and having it too" to say that the latter opinion is unwelcome. Second, there's a very clear relationship between the "le…

Politics at work is still politics at work. I'm generalizing a bit here for sake of the point. There is a large amount of people advocating that other people with leanings and opinions should have their services, contracts, and professional relationships cancelled. Based on their personal politics. This cuts both ways. If companies can rightfully do that to customers, then it is also legit for them to do it to employees.

The relationship is the same by type, the content of the topics is of the same type.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#206

Post by EMM_386 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:11 AM UTC

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> Color me naive, but shouldn’t what happens in the office be about the office???

Yes I don't understand any of this either.

Maybe I'm just an old dog who's been in software engineering for 20+ years, but when I get hired by a company they exchange one thing (money) for what I can offer (programming).

If I am uncomfortable with what they are asking me to do regarding my skill of programming, I can quit at any time and go somewhere else.

I can't for the life of me understand how employees are debating things like the Israeli/Palestinian conflict during their time at work, on public channels.

There is plenty of time outside of work to do whatever you want.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#207

Post by BeFlatXIII » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:12 AM UTC

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #108

postalrat wrote: post #64

Don't talk politics. Don't talk about how much you make. Just do as you are told!

You should openly discuss how much you make in order that you can negotiate with more leverage. But you’re right about politics.

Downvoted for giving good advice: truly, this place is more indistinguishable from Reddit than any of us care to admit.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#208

Post by lliamander » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:12 AM UTC

tshaddox wrote: post #90

nailer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grandparent was asking what those purposes are, not what amount of them there are.

And I offered one place to look for an answer: one’s own purposes for engaging in this very discussion.

They are not the same. We engaging here in this discussion are genuinely trying to influence a situation over which we have some modest influence (all the while refining our ideas and maybe even learning something).

These activists primary motivation is to achieve the high the comes from exerting power over other people.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#209

Post by zdragnar » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:13 AM UTC

newsclues wrote: post #98

duped wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The office exists within society. Some things exist everywhere you go in society. You don't give up ethics and morals because you cross the threshold of your place of business. Ignoring social problems in the workplace because it is a workplace is how we avoid solving those problems as a society. The office is exactly where we should be advocating for things, because it is where we spend the most time and can affect…

Critical race theory applies its lens to everything. School is racist, police are racist, government is racist, of course work and the office will become targets.

I am not sure I understand why people are downvoting / disagreeing with this. The pevasiveness and permanence of racism- indeed, the use of the term "whiteness" as a proxy for all social ills- is basically the core tenant of CRT.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#210

Post by groby_b » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:13 AM UTC

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

The problem here is that the office is deeply interwoven with the political. Part of this is that, as they say, "the personal is political". But let's set that aside for a moment, because we could make the case that in-office personal matters (e.g discrimination) is legally covered. (I'd debate that, but that's more political than HN likes to get, so... setting aside)

Even then, companies have political impact. When the CEO of Citizen decides hate mobs are a good idea, and he sponsors homeless hunting for sport with a $30k bounty, that's political.

If your company decides to sell surveillance software, that's political. More so if they pick specifically whom they sell it to or not. If your company decides to oppose or not oppose attempts to get at user data, that too is political - either way.

And worse, if your company decides that since they have money, they should get a voice in the political process, that too is political.