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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

131–140 of 1001 posts

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#131
Does anyone really believe that these giant companies actually care about the so-called 'woke' values being foisted upon them?

Once companies realize that getting political is no longer a virtue (and by 'virtuous' we mean anything that increases their bottom line), we'll slowly start seeing sanity crawl back to the workplace. I'm glad to see some companies clearing that path.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#132

> last week Alphabet, Google’s parent, had to deal with another internal petition circulating among employees, this one calling on the firm’s leadership to make a statement “recognising the violence in Palestine and Israel”. It's a special kind of hubris to believe that despite over a thousand years of conflict in the region, the right people to comprehensively understand and solve the problem are some people who mak…

Nobody is fighting over theological differences, they are fighting over land. Specifically, land that was conquered by the British who promised it to both parties, failed to manage a compromise, tossed the problem to the UN who drew up horrible borders, then allowed Israel to settle beyond those borders without consequence. The entire history of this issue is roughly 100 years old and almost entirely due to imperiali…

I am aware of all of the context you have provided, thanks.

You're mostly right, but I don't think it's correct to say that the "entire history of this issue is roughly 100 years old". At least in the minds of many of the people in the riots — because this isn't exclusively a conflict between militants — it is about who owned the land first. Who's right here? Well, it's disputed. That's… why there's a war.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#133
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Most businesses are started with neither. But with the sweat off the back of the founders. When will we acknowledge that one of the most noble pursuits in human history is to provide paid employment for your fellow man??

> When will we acknowledge that one of the most noble pursuits Christ, this Superhero CEO bullshit has to stop. It is beyond absurd. Is the multi-hundred X income multiplier really insufficient, they need their egos stroked constantly, too? I have co-founded a startup, and otherwise have worked at them for almost the entirety of my adult life. I know how much work, risk, and pain is involved. But this apparent need f…

I wouldn't have chosen the term noble either, but remember there are some non-native English speakers here.

Fundamentally, people don't start companies for social status reasons - if anything, social status is the reason not to quit your comfy executive job at a large tech company and instead have to work out of a co-working space.

And since your own description of your professional career implies that your startup didn't make you a billionaire, I really don't understand why it was necessary to bring up the "multi-hundred X income multiplier" fallacy.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#134
post #30

The weird thing is how it’s all seems so co-ordinated. As if the HR departments of every firm get their marching orders from some central advocacy group.

HR is not usually an important or powerful part of a company. I wonder if HR people, consciously or subconsciously, are drawn to the idea of being important and powerful for once.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#135
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your labor and skills are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the owner for money. They may tolerate (and even enjoy) your personal quirks and causes, but they are paying you to get things done that they don't have the time or skill to do themselves. [Edit: Accidentally left ou a letter]

> Your labor and skills are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the owner for money. But if everybody is woke (and that is the case given that we are talking about tech and California) then the company has no choice but to accept wokeness because the money becomes a non factor if it can't be offered to somebody who is not woke . The supply of non woke workers ju…

There is an enormous supply of workers who don't want social and political issues in the workplace, but silently acquiesce because saying anything gets you branded negatively and quickly canceled. It doesn't matter if you agree but prefer keeping it out of the workplace; you must either support the woke brigade or keep your mouth shut.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#136
post #96

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. Absolutely not, and for a very clear reason: the aims of the entrepreneurs are to make money and reduce costs. My aim, in asking for raises, is to increase costs. Are you saying this is inappropriate? I am at work because the company and I came to a mutually beneficial arrangement. They need things done that are better…

>If the employer doesn't like my demands, they are free to try to find someone else, and the process works the same in both cases.

That's not the problem though. The problem is that your political advocacy causes problems with your co-workers, not your employer. If you have political activism at the work place then you're possibly making the workplace hostile for people who disagree politically with you. You might never hear about it, especially if you're in the majority, but you're still turning people off.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#137
post #8

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. What? I can’t be the only one who works directly in order to fulfill my needs (like literally my most basic needs, think food and shelter).

You’re both right. As a member of a company one is to further the mission of the company but it’s based on an agreement that in exchange for that, you and the company come to an agreement on compensation.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#138
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advocating for what things exactly? It might be a strawman, but I’m going to guess and it would be something like an end to perceived workplace raceism/sexism/*isms. If you let in political advocacy movements from the left do you really want political movements from the right? Or is it just ok if the left is advocating for it? I kinda think the left is trying to have their equity cake and eat it too… To some people (…

> To some people (I am not one of them at all, but I understand the argument) any abortion is literally murder, and it as a sincerely held belief as the recent movements like BLM and #metoo were. This as well as other parts of your comment seem to imply that you believe the sincerity or intensity with which one holds a particular belief is one of the most important factors in the merits of that belief. I personally d…

I think you might find that those you consider your deepest ideological foes would wholeheartedly agree with you on precisely this point.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#139
post #52

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

I can’t help but wonder if the tech industry did this to itself. Tech companies offer so many amenities at the office from free food, to laundry, to massages that the line between office and home has blurred. Maybe the solution is making offices feel like offices and normalizing forty hour work weeks?

You think it was the benefits, rather than the we're-a-family, always on-call, live your work culture employers have been pushing?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#140

I have no tolerance for politics at work. As far as woke at work goes, not too long ago someone in my office commented on slack "I don't approve of unnecessarily gendered emoji" - I can't even begin to imagine what sort of mind produces such thoughts. First world problems? No idea.

Yeah. I grew up in a third world country and moved to North America pretty late. I never realized how sheltered and weak Americans were till I joined a well known YC company.

> I never realized how sheltered and weak Americans were

People are people. I would try to view it through the lens of power dynamics and in-group signaling rather than weakness/strength.

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