Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

protocol.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 375 posts

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#211

Post by kbenson »

zepto wrote: post #196
kbenson wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every app with any popularity will then be considering their own app store. The WeChat Store. The Facebook Store. The Snap Store. Why would you assume this would happen on iOS when it hasn't happened on Android, when the suggestion is to do what Android already allows, and yet we don't see this on Android?

Android doesn’t allow first class alternative stores, and is also not the market leader. It’s obviously not an example for this, otherwise Epic would have just made an Android store and moved on.

> Android doesn’t allow first class alternative stores

Don't change the goal posts. Apple doesn't provide anything. Having to pass through a dialogue after download t confirm install isn't ideal, but possible is better than not.

> and is also not the market leader.

Android is at 45% and apple is at 55%.[1] Is your contention that a least of that amount is sufficient such that it actually changes this in some way? If so, how do you square that with Android's worldwide market share being reported as 72% in 2020?[2]

1: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/north-amer...

2: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide/...

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#212

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

grishka wrote: post #130
causality0 wrote: post #2

I really hope the concept of "you can't be anti-competitive if you own the entire ecosystem" dies.

I really hope devices, services, and infrastructure get separated and also that it would become illegal for a device manufacturer to retain any kind of control over a device after it's been sold. Burning a public key into OTP ROM as trusted and not providing its private counterpart counts too. You want to set up cloud backups? You get a text box to put a domain in. You get to choose whose infrastructure you use. It m…

This right here. I like controlling my own DRM Free media. I imagined a system the other day where you can buy a pressing of a movie and on checkout you get the video file or enter the host you want it sent to so you can stream it. Or both. This would open up all kinds of different hosting services- an entire industry.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#213

Post by kelnos »

tshaddox wrote: post #160
stale2002 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keep your grubby mitts off the Apple ecosystem. But it is actually you who want to control how other people use their own phone, that they own. If you don't like Epic's store, just don't use it. Problem solved. That way, people who want to trust apple get what they want, as well as people who want to trust other app stores. Everyone wins, right? Why do you care so much about how other people use their own phone?

Your argument only works if people are forced to use iPhones or if you can show that reasonable people expect to have functionality on their iPhones that doesn’t exist. But on the contrary, I suspect a lot of people choose iPhones specifically because of the perceived curation of the App Store and lack of malware, spyware, etc.

In my experience people choose iPhones because they are a status symbol, and because Apple has become synonymous with good design and good taste. Due to marketing efforts, Android devices are still seen as the "cheap option" or for people who don't care about their image. Many people are also already locked into the Apple ecosystem through desktop/laptop Macs, iCloud, etc., so getting a non-Apple phone would introduce a lot of friction into their experience.

Part of it is also that iOS used to be quite far ahead of Android when it came to usability and polish. Android has since mostly caught up, but there is an advantage to being a first mover, and the people who didn't like Android back when it was much worse have since gotten locked into Apple's ecosystem, even if they never used Apple products before that.

I don't think most people seriously think about App Store curation as any of top reasons why they have an iPhone.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#214

Post by [deleted] »

fxtentacle wrote: post #8

I really hope Epic will release a gaming phone. It appears they have enough cash, enough clever people, and a good connection to Chinese manufacturers through their partners. If they make it Android-based but Open Source, similar to how the Unreal Engine contains proprietary components while remaining easy to customize, that could be quite the popular move for grabbing market share from Apple and Google. I, at least,…

[deleted]

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#215

Post by threeseed »

skohan wrote: post #123
manicdee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most phone users aren’t interested in developing software on their phone. They aren’t interested in developing a better systemd. They have no idea what malware actually is. All that is going to happen if Epic gets their own store is Epic will be collecting the 30% rather than Apple, and the user will get apps that are poorly designed, chew battery, and don’t conform to the UX standards that Apple has set (eg: accessi…

The new iPads literally have the same SOC as what are some of, if not the best consumer laptops on the planet currently. But what can you do with them? Not a heck of a lot, thanks to the walled garden that is iPad OS. If you ask me, that's a crying shame. I don't see how it hurts anyone to allow side-loading of apps on iOS devices. Even if you make it as hard as having a toggle behind a scary warning 2 layers deep in…

Where is the evidence that allowing sideloaded apps will result in an explosion of desktop class apps ?

Hasn’t been the case with Android. And I would say the touch centric form factor is far more an issue.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#216

Post by cpleppert »

ncann wrote: post #40
w7 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused, don't we allow this level of control with video game consoles? (Heck Sony and Microsoft also take 30% cuts) What's the difference other than form factor?

The line is very blurry. The only major difference between a console and a smartphone is that a console is intended from the get go to be a gaming device, whereas a smartphone is more of a generic computing device, but even then it's hard to draw a meaningful argument on why one should be treated differently from the other.

Sure it is. A gaming console has a plethora of alternatives available to the consumer. PCs, other consoles, game streaming, mobile games and other entertainment options.

If you need a smartphone ( and that is everyone for all practical purposes) your only choice is iPhone or Android. There are no substitutes whatsoever and little evidence of the price competition that would show market forces. In the same vein, software developers have no choice if they want to develop for smartphones and it’s hard to think of a substitute.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#217

Post by kelnos »

zepto wrote: post #197
kitsunesoba wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't like Epic's store, just don't use it. Problem solved. That only holds up until something you need is exclusive to a store that you don't want to use.

Which will happen pretty instantly since the stores will buy exclusives.

Will it, though? My expectation is that most apps will still want to be on the main App Store if they can, since installing a third-party app store still represents friction to the install experience.

Perhaps in a more mature market where having several app stores on your phone is commonplace (assuming that even happens), we'll have an annoying situation of exclusives, but I don't expect that "instantly" or even remotely so.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#218

Post by arduinomancer »

fxtentacle wrote: post #8

I really hope Epic will release a gaming phone. It appears they have enough cash, enough clever people, and a good connection to Chinese manufacturers through their partners. If they make it Android-based but Open Source, similar to how the Unreal Engine contains proprietary components while remaining easy to customize, that could be quite the popular move for grabbing market share from Apple and Google. I, at least,…

Agreed, it would definitely drive engagement to the Epic Games store.

They could even give it a name that symbolizes that, perhaps something like: N-Gage

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#219

Post by kergonath »

grishka wrote: post #122
voisin wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument was made and their response yesterday was that there is an unacceptable level of malware on macs because they are not locked down the same way.

So the subscription scams in the iOS app store are an acceptable level of malware. Got it.

You start from one specific type of scan and jump to a conclusion about a platform. Without providing any evidence whatsoever regarding the “level of malware” on either macOS or iOS, or what level you’d find acceptable. This is fallacious and not helpful.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#220

Post by protoman3000 »

Apple could sell Bootloader unlocked iPhones and iPads at a higher premium and then tell Epic there’s your freedom. There’s literally no need to interface with iOS other than Epic wanting to tap into the iOS userbase and platform and to not pay for it.
Post reply on HN