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Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

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Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#191

Post by mediocregopher »

I'm seeing two opposing and yet identical arguments showing themselves around this topic repeatedly:

> If you don't like Apple's walled garden, then don't use an Apple product.

> If you don't like the Epic app store, then don't use the Epic app store.

I don't have a solution here (though i know which side i fall on), but it's worth noting that neither of these seem to useful arguments to base anything on. The judge here seems to be aiming for an argument based on Apple not having any real competition they need to respond to, which is probably more fruitful.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#192

Post by enos_feedler »

skohan wrote: post #123
manicdee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most phone users aren’t interested in developing software on their phone. They aren’t interested in developing a better systemd. They have no idea what malware actually is. All that is going to happen if Epic gets their own store is Epic will be collecting the 30% rather than Apple, and the user will get apps that are poorly designed, chew battery, and don’t conform to the UX standards that Apple has set (eg: accessi…

The new iPads literally have the same SOC as what are some of, if not the best consumer laptops on the planet currently. But what can you do with them? Not a heck of a lot, thanks to the walled garden that is iPad OS. If you ask me, that's a crying shame. I don't see how it hurts anyone to allow side-loading of apps on iOS devices. Even if you make it as hard as having a toggle behind a scary warning 2 layers deep in…

You don’t think Apple has a team of people trying to figure out what you can do with them? iPadOS isn’t designed to cripple the HW, its designed to extract the most from it. Its missing some traditional use cases

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#193

Post by rsj_hn »

Dah00n wrote: post #187
rsj_hn wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going to the Supreme Court and will not be settled by a single judge, particularly a California district judge. There is just no incentive for either participant to decide "Oh, if Yvonne Rogers says so, then sure we're changing business models". The entire case is just round 1 of an oracle-google style dispute, which (if I had to guess) will likely have a similar ultimate conclusion -- e.g. preserve the statu…

In the US perhaps but not so in the EU.

Not knowing much about the EU, would a district judge responsible for, say, northern Italy be able to change EU-wide business rules? With no appeal to a broader authority?

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#194

Post by comex »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #73
m463 wrote: post #52

The best result for customers is that there are alternate ways of putting apps on their own phones that do not require apple's permission. Then the customers that trust apple to protect them will just stay with the app store. The customers that try the alternate ways may find problems, but they will also find enormous positive changes in their ability to do new things on their phone. Personally, I would like the abil…

The best outcome for everybody is that the maximum % commission of these stores is regulated, perhaps to a maximum of 10-15%. Do that and the need for alternate stores, alternate payments etc. goes away.

Then money would be less of an issue, but we'd still be stuck with all the same arbitrary restrictions as today, like no third party browsers, no porn, political censorship in China...

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#195

Post by matheusmoreira »

slver wrote: post #172
matheusmoreira wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you wanna install your own OS Yes, please. Who do I have to call at Apple to get an iPhone's bootloader unlocked?

I don’t work at Apple, do your own research. Also maybe next time do that research before buying a device and then complaining it doesn’t do what it never said it does.

How about we make it illegal for corporations to lock down other people's devices instead? Much better than constantly moving the goalposts.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#196

Post by zepto »

kbenson wrote: post #179
trimbo wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every app with any popularity will then be considering their own app store. The WeChat Store. The Facebook Store. The Snap Store. Why would you assume this would happen on iOS when it hasn't happened on Android, when the suggestion is to do what Android already allows, and yet we don't see this on Android?

Android doesn’t allow first class alternative stores, and is also not the market leader.

It’s obviously not an example for this, otherwise Epic would have just made an Android store and moved on.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#197

Post by zepto »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #146
stale2002 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keep your grubby mitts off the Apple ecosystem. But it is actually you who want to control how other people use their own phone, that they own. If you don't like Epic's store, just don't use it. Problem solved. That way, people who want to trust apple get what they want, as well as people who want to trust other app stores. Everyone wins, right? Why do you care so much about how other people use their own phone?

> If you don't like Epic's store, just don't use it. Problem solved. That only holds up until something you need is exclusive to a store that you don't want to use.

Which will happen pretty instantly since the stores will buy exclusives.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#198

Post by ace2358 »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #131
fooey wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically every other comparable store charges the exact same 30% rate Google, Steam, Xbox, PlayStation, Nintendo The ones that don't just prove that charging a lower rate doesn't actually change the price the consumer pays in any way.

Google charges 15% Steam charges 20-30% depending on how big you are, and probably has a sweatheart deal with EA. Xbox and Playstation offer subsidised hardware and arguably have a 0% rate given that so many titles are published in-house. Nintendo offers an effective 25% rate as 5% of spend is rebated to customers' wallets. Microsoft charges 12% Epic charges 12%

Are the different rates reflected in the prices on the store or does the customer pay the same price irrespective of the cut taken by the platform?

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#199

Post by mattkevan »

skohan wrote: post #123
manicdee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most phone users aren’t interested in developing software on their phone. They aren’t interested in developing a better systemd. They have no idea what malware actually is. All that is going to happen if Epic gets their own store is Epic will be collecting the 30% rather than Apple, and the user will get apps that are poorly designed, chew battery, and don’t conform to the UX standards that Apple has set (eg: accessi…

The new iPads literally have the same SOC as what are some of, if not the best consumer laptops on the planet currently. But what can you do with them? Not a heck of a lot, thanks to the walled garden that is iPad OS. If you ask me, that's a crying shame. I don't see how it hurts anyone to allow side-loading of apps on iOS devices. Even if you make it as hard as having a toggle behind a scary warning 2 layers deep in…

By create you mean develop, right?

The iPad is already one of the best creation tools out there for artists, musicians, photographers etc.

I’d suggest the iPad is hampered more by the limits of iPadOS’ multitasking UI and it’s roots as a scaled-up phone OS - and the scarcity of truly pro-level software - rather than the App Store and not being able to sideload.

In fact the only real reasons to sideload or jailbreak at the moment are to get around the limitations on running dynamic code - or to use cracked/dodgy versions of paid apps.

Wouldn’t be surprised if we see some big improvements in the dev experience over the next few system releases, but to say this will enable a burst of creativity is ignoring all the highly creative ways it’s already being used.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#200

Post by kelnos »

enos_feedler wrote: post #192
skohan wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new iPads literally have the same SOC as what are some of, if not the best consumer laptops on the planet currently. But what can you do with them? Not a heck of a lot, thanks to the walled garden that is iPad OS. If you ask me, that's a crying shame. I don't see how it hurts anyone to allow side-loading of apps on iOS devices. Even if you make it as hard as having a toggle behind a scary warning 2 layers deep in…

You don’t think Apple has a team of people trying to figure out what you can do with them? iPadOS isn’t designed to cripple the HW, its designed to extract the most from it. Its missing some traditional use cases

iPadOS is designed to extract the most revenue from the hardware, and the users. An more-open platform would allow for many things that would likely be really awesome for users, but is disallowed because that would threaten Apple's revenue streams.
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