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Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

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31–40 of 167 posts

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#31

If there are restrictions, I hope they target major microplastic sources like tires and textiles, rather than easily scapegoated but very minor sources, like plastic bags and drinking straws. Based on precedent, I am not holding my breath, but I hope so.

Have you got a source for this concern? Tires are rubber, not plastic as far as I know, and though many textiles are polyester, and fleece is mostly recycled plastics (if I recall) where is the mass use of plastic in the textile industry?

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#32
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over 40% of Canadians are partially vaccinated

As one of that number I was glad to see this: a single shot of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine is 80% effective in preventing infection (vs the ~90% of two shots): https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/cdc-study-shows-single-dose-...

I'm extremely skeptical of these numbers. I've seen reports as low as 27% effective for first shot of Pfiser and as high as 95%.

I'm still getting my first one this weekend but I'm not gonna assume I'm really much safer than I was before.

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#33

Many people might think something as massive as the ocean is basically unlimited and that there's no way us humans could screw it up. Not true. Take a sample of seawater from almost anywhere right now and you'll find microplastics. Something like 80% of the world's fish stocks are also gone from overfishing.

I can't understand this perspective at all, but it seems to have been a key philosophy guiding human development for a very long time. Was it just a belief based on convenience?

Up until the time industrial revolution really started to get going, it was true. If you look at the literature, poetry or philosophy of most any culture before 1880s it’s easy to see an unwavering belief of the invincibility of Nature against mankind. Humans have always been able to alter nature, but their ability to alter Nature with the capital N is a very new thing on a geological time scale.

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#34
post #6

Great. Regulation and reduction of plastic production is long overdue. There are some places where it makes sense to use plastic, but we're far, far overproducing the stuff because it's convenient. It's fantastically difficult to recycle in practice, burning it produces toxic smoke and carbon emissions, and putting it into the waste stream results in a bunch of it getting dropped on the sides of roadways.

Is there a good list of what things we can reasonably replace? As I'm typing this I wonder what we would use for shock absorbant things like phone cases or water proof seals like cv boots on car suspensions. Edit:. Looking around, electrical insulation, seals, and shock absorbers are the three things that I cant think of a good replacement for. Some seals like for weather proofing you could use spring bronze.

Large, durable plastic use is less of a concern, if I understand correctly. Plastic use around food (and packaging in general), for instance, has a lifespan of approximately 6 months. Compare to the 13 years for plastics used by the automotive industry.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/7/e1700782

There's TONS of packaging that could be replaced by other materials -- particularly materials that can non-toxically decompose in the environment in a reasonable time frame.

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#35

If there are restrictions, I hope they target major microplastic sources like tires and textiles, rather than easily scapegoated but very minor sources, like plastic bags and drinking straws. Based on precedent, I am not holding my breath, but I hope so.

Have you got a source for this concern? Tires are rubber, not plastic as far as I know, and though many textiles are polyester, and fleece is mostly recycled plastics (if I recall) where is the mass use of plastic in the textile industry?

Rubber is a plastic. As for polyester, what do you think PET plastic is?

I will add that a weathered component of tire rubber has recently been identified as causing mass death of salmon when it washes off into streams.

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#36

Many people might think something as massive as the ocean is basically unlimited and that there's no way us humans could screw it up. Not true. Take a sample of seawater from almost anywhere right now and you'll find microplastics. Something like 80% of the world's fish stocks are also gone from overfishing.

It's worse than that. It's showing up in rain and snow, and our water supply because most filtration systems don't catch micro/nanoplastics. It's in our bodies.

I think we will eventually find it's also largely responsible for the tremendous drop off in birth rates and reproductive health that the world has been experiencing the last 10+ years and possibly other neurological and "brain" issues that have increased in frequency. Infertility of people in their reproductive prime is at an all-time high. We already know BPA has a lot of these side effects.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/17/micropla...

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/05/us-birth-and-fertility-rates...

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#37
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why it would?

If there is less demand for plastic in general, then that means there could be less demand for recycling (properly sorted) old plastic to produce new plastic goods.

We recycle less than 10% of our plastic. And of that, very little goes back to producing the same products -- plastic is typically degraded when recycled and converted from food packaging down into benches or clothing, both of which will shed microplastics into the environment before being sent to the landfill.

Plastic recycling is not an eternal loop like metal recycling can be. It's almost entirely downcycling when it happens at all.

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#38
post #7
post #2

The focus here is on the environment. However, plastic is linked to many health issues as well.

Plastic packaging makes hygienic food more accessible as an effective and cheap barrier to pathogens, incoming and outgoing. Such public health interests should be balanced against their toxicity. It's easier for wealthier people to substitute with restaurants, servants and higher quality materials. So a general plastic ban would amount to a regressive tax on sanitary food.

Agree that a case by case analysis is appropriate, but I don’t really see any world where the cost/benefit analysis of plastic and water would be anywhere near the same ballpark

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#39
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastic packaging makes hygienic food more accessible as an effective and cheap barrier to pathogens, incoming and outgoing. Such public health interests should be balanced against their toxicity. It's easier for wealthier people to substitute with restaurants, servants and higher quality materials. So a general plastic ban would amount to a regressive tax on sanitary food.

That penn and teller episode with the petition for removing dihydrogen monoxide from schools was fantastic. https://youtu.be/zVxypRWZODQ

Using obscure terminology to confuse people certainly makes a good joke :-) I'm not sure it really tells us much though.

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#40

If there are restrictions, I hope they target major microplastic sources like tires and textiles, rather than easily scapegoated but very minor sources, like plastic bags and drinking straws. Based on precedent, I am not holding my breath, but I hope so.

Have you got a source for this concern? Tires are rubber, not plastic as far as I know, and though many textiles are polyester, and fleece is mostly recycled plastics (if I recall) where is the mass use of plastic in the textile industry?

> Tires are rubber,

> many textiles are polyester

Rubber can be natural or synthetic, and the synthetic rubber is a plastic polymer. Tyres use a mix of natural and synthetic rubber.

Polyester can be natural, but it's often synthetic. Synthetic polyester is not biodegradable. A lot of polyester clothing uses synthetic polyester.

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