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Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

blog.twitch.tv

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Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#111

Post by viraptor »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #103
gabereiser wrote: post #38

Hasn’t the business model been either top-notch gaming or this, the soft core porn niche? I mean, most women streaming on twitch are using their looks and body for viewership. It’s the oldest play in the book. It’s all over YouTube as well (show a girl in a thong, get a million views). Twitch should just create a NSFW/Verified 18+ section and be done with it. I think the real issue is with advertisers. They don’t wan…

> I mean, most women streaming on twitch are using their looks and body for viewership. It’s the oldest play in the book This is the real sticking point. If they came down hard against titty streamers they would be destroying a large portion of their own viewer base. Not to mention how bad it would look from a "Twitch is being sexist" viewpoint. Top male streamers would continue to do extremely well, male streamers w…

Also any policy like that would hit women who are into positive body expression, without trying to use it as a popularity tool. I.e. they'd have to figure out how to tell apart those who work on being suggestive for money and that who just enjoy being suggestive in life. Kind of like the repeating issue for https://mobile.twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg who as far as I can tell is strongly in the second category.

But that's in the mind reading area - they just can't do it reliably.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#112

Post by _6pvr »

nemothekid wrote: post #109
_6pvr wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a truly excellent strawman. Do you see no middle ground between obviously sexual content and a Burqa? Is there no middle ground between writing someone's name on your breasts for $5 and going to the beach to swim?

> Is there no middle ground What is that middle ground? Do you codify and say women can't write things on their chest? What about in a video game? Should streaming Cyberpunk 2077 be banned - it clearly has sexual content? I'm not making a straw man - I'm trying to point out your essentially saying "they should ban content I don't like", which means Twitch will apply the rules in anyway you fit - another complaint you…

> Again, are you saying streamers shouldn't be allowed to go to the beach? Or are you saying they shouldn't be allowed to wear bikinis? And if another streamer watches a YouTube video that has a woman at the beach should they be banned?

You should consider reading my post.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#113

Post by crazypyro »

Jonanin wrote: post #8
_6pvr wrote: post #2

Twitch continues to pretend hot tub streams aren't intentionally sexually suggestive. What a joke. HN doesn't really do memes, but I made this because it seems relevant: https://imgflip.com/i/5ah3b7

I didn't know there were so many outraged prudes on twitch. Why should twitch have a sexually suggestive content rule in the first place? This rule actually seems reasonable: > Nudity or sexually explicit content (which we define as pornography, sex acts, and sexual services) are not allowed on Twitch. I don't see what the huge issue with showing off your own sexiness is. Sheesh!

Because Twitch focuses largely on marketing directly to children? You cannot separate the fact that Twitch is trying to become the site for all gaming (including children) and also allowing nearly-softcore porn on the same site. Its literally a few clicks away. Now, they think because they made a separate category, advertisers will be fine with it.

They are lucky that hot tub streamers haven't gotten mainstream news attention yet, I can't imagine the outrage of parents when they see some of the stuff thats allowed....

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#115

Post by void_mint »

robbrown451 wrote: post #108
_6pvr wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is charging admission for beach volleyball a sexual service? This question actually perfectly articulates the difference. When you pay $5 to watch a beach volleyball tournament, you're paying for volleyball, and may as a side effect experience content that _some_ may find sexual. By Twitch's ToS, this should totally be allowed. As for my example, is there a nonsexual reason to pay a woman 5 dollars to bend over in…

So you've come up with an example that is clearly on one side of the line. Ok, but not sure what that proves. I don't think anyone has argued that there aren't any clear cut cases. What you are missing is that whatever rule you make, people are going to try to push the limits, because it gets them viewers. If twitch says that someone bending over in a bikini has no non-sexual purpose and therefore is against the rule…

It seems that you think I'm referencing a contrived example to prove my point, when in reality I'm referencing the actual donation gifts for the vast majority of Hot Tub Streamers (which, please note, is not "people that sometimes stream in a hot tub", but is now a specific genre of stream of which many people exclusively stream).

People have been sometimes streaming from hot tubs for years, and it's always been the exact grey area you're describing. Only very recently has it turned into a hypersexualized scenario, which is why Twitch is putting out more content condoning it.

> You seem to not understand that there is gray area.

I do. You don't seem to understand that the vast majority of the streams this change will encapsulate are not grey at all.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#116

Post by reactordev »

viraptor wrote: post #111
bluefirebrand wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, most women streaming on twitch are using their looks and body for viewership. It’s the oldest play in the book This is the real sticking point. If they came down hard against titty streamers they would be destroying a large portion of their own viewer base. Not to mention how bad it would look from a "Twitch is being sexist" viewpoint. Top male streamers would continue to do extremely well, male streamers w…

Also any policy like that would hit women who are into positive body expression, without trying to use it as a popularity tool. I.e. they'd have to figure out how to tell apart those who work on being suggestive for money and that who just enjoy being suggestive in life. Kind of like the repeating issue for https://mobile.twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg who as far as I can tell is strongly in the second category. But that…

I’m all about body positivity but the policies of twitch are really hit or miss with who they come down on and who they let off the hook. It’s inconsistent. Super streamers get booted off for making a simple stupid side cuff rant yet violators of their policies continue to stream without recourse. It’s like it’s moderated by 16 year olds.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#117

Post by kibwen »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #96
nickysielicki wrote: post #43

These streams are closer to pornography than most people realize. There's a reason that these streams get so much attention: 14 year old young men love watching video games, so they go to sites where they can watch video games. If you start serving softcore pornography on the same website, well gee wiz, who could have guessed that it would be pretty lucrative? You don't have to be a prude to have a problem with this.…

Twitch has no spine. If it was up to Amazon they'd probably ban it though.

I can go on Amazon right now and buy a 55-gallon drum of sexual lubricant and a ten-inch, anatomically-correct silicone horse dildo. If it's making them money, they won't complain.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#118

Post by oliwarner »

Traster wrote: post #33
autocorr wrote: post #10

> Community and advertiser feedback made clear that we need to offer more ways to control the content that’s recommended as well as where ads appear. So, we’re introducing a new category: Pools, Hot Tubs, and Beaches. If you have chosen swimwear that is allowed under the “Swim and Beaches” contextual exception to our standard Nudity and Attire policy, you should stream into the Pools, Hot Tubs and Beaches category. P…

They don't want to be a porn site. The problem they have is that the porn content drives away advertisers and non-porn related contant. So they have to steer away from porn, but wherever they draw the line there are going to be people testing the line, and there's an audience for it. So the compromise they've clearly come up with is they don't allow porn, but if you happen to be sexy wearing practically nothing, that…

No, they don't want to admit to being a porn site. Tying themselves in knots with silly rules like this means they're just a gateway for people to promote their OnlyFans pages.

If they want to be a game streaming site, why allow player video at all? Pare it back to what it was actually for.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#119

Post by darkhorse22 »

crazypyro wrote: post #110
DaedPsyker wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt the type of people that watch this stuff are really just prudes that can't handle porn.

I wouldn't doubt that a large percentage of the viewers are underaged users who actually do not have any experience with adult material. Twitch is a gaming site. Kids watch youtube videos of people playing games, they get funneled to check out the minecraft/fortnite/etc. category on twitch then they get curious and check out the large streamers on the site. What do you know? There's a streamer who is sitting in a hot…

> underaged users who actually do not have any experience with adult material.

A vanishingly small group. Most people aggressively seek that shit out as soon as they hit puberty.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#120

Post by tolbish »

oliwarner wrote: post #118
Traster wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't want to be a porn site. The problem they have is that the porn content drives away advertisers and non-porn related contant. So they have to steer away from porn, but wherever they draw the line there are going to be people testing the line, and there's an audience for it. So the compromise they've clearly come up with is they don't allow porn, but if you happen to be sexy wearing practically nothing, that…

No, they don't want to admit to being a porn site. Tying themselves in knots with silly rules like this means they're just a gateway for people to promote their OnlyFans pages. If they want to be a game streaming site, why allow player video at all? Pare it back to what it was actually for.

What happens when advertisers do not care about pornographic content?
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