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Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

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Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#51
post #4

I really hope the concept of "you can't be anti-competitive if you own the entire ecosystem" dies.

The slogans are easy but you need to define what "ecosystem" is so we understand the system-wide implications of these attitudes. Can I for example go to Walmart and setup my own store inside their store without having to ask them? Can I do the same in your local mom-and-pop store?

Are iOS devices Apple's private property?

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#52
The best result for customers is that there are alternate ways of putting apps on their own phones that do not require apple's permission.

Then the customers that trust apple to protect them will just stay with the app store.

The customers that try the alternate ways may find problems, but they will also find enormous positive changes in their ability to do new things on their phone.

Personally, I would like the ability to see what apps - including apple apps - are doing, and firewall my phone.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#53
post #33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people recycle phones every couple of years. If the phone functions as a typical smartphone with a gaming bent, it could replace traditional smartphones for folks who want to game. Gamers also carry secondary hand-held devices (like the Nintendo Switch) for dedicated gameplay.

Do you realize how many failed devices fit that category. Those who don't know their history...

I only said it could work, not that it will. I am aware of the many failures in this category. I also wanted to point out that the original premise (nobody would buy an Epic phone because it must be their second phone) is flawed. Not only could it replace their primary phone, but gamers do indeed buy, charge, and carry secondary hand-held devices if the device suits their needs.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#54
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't using an analogy. I was literally talking about: if this is a law, how it'll ACTUALLY impact every business. If you think what Apple has created is different, again, define it. Let's see how it's fundamentally different and where the line is.

Can you please explain how you go from the hypothetical future of "Apple's 30% app store cut is found to be illegally anti-competitive" to "Walmart would be forced to allow random competitors to open stores physically inside them".

Parent does have a point here. His point is not that you can or should compare the two. We know they are different. But the LAW doesn't. How do you define in LEGAL terms how apple and WalMart are different? You can't use the word "ecosystem" like we throw around for apple because it is meaningless in legal terms. So first you need to either find an existing legal term and apply it or you need to make a new one. If you make a new one (because obviously Apples thing doesn't have a normal analogy) then you have to be VERRRRRY CAREFUL how you define it and what exact terms you use because whatever that is will be used and abused by precedence for decades to come.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#55
post #4

I really hope the concept of "you can't be anti-competitive if you own the entire ecosystem" dies.

The slogans are easy but you need to define what "ecosystem" is so we understand the system-wide implications of these attitudes. Can I for example go to Walmart and setup my own store inside their store without having to ask them? Can I do the same in your local mom-and-pop store?

Except what you state already exists. I can load the Walmart app on iOS and order a TV from Walmart, not Apple. Apple is preventing Epic from doing the same - buy in-app merchandise through Epic's app on iOS.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#56
post #52

The best result for customers is that there are alternate ways of putting apps on their own phones that do not require apple's permission. Then the customers that trust apple to protect them will just stay with the app store. The customers that try the alternate ways may find problems, but they will also find enormous positive changes in their ability to do new things on their phone. Personally, I would like the abil…

I'd like to use these unbelievably powerful portable computers like general purpose computers.

Develop applications right on device! My dream.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#57
post #4

I really hope the concept of "you can't be anti-competitive if you own the entire ecosystem" dies.

The slogans are easy but you need to define what "ecosystem" is so we understand the system-wide implications of these attitudes. Can I for example go to Walmart and setup my own store inside their store without having to ask them? Can I do the same in your local mom-and-pop store?

I can also go into a mom and pop store, load Target's website on my phone, and order a pick-up order from Target. The Mom and Pop store can't stop you from doing that.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#58
post #53
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realize how many failed devices fit that category. Those who don't know their history...

I only said it could work, not that it will. I am aware of the many failures in this category. I also wanted to point out that the original premise (nobody would buy an Epic phone because it must be their second phone) is flawed. Not only could it replace their primary phone, but gamers do indeed buy, charge, and carry secondary hand-held devices if the device suits their needs.

"Gamers" represent a tiny percent of the game-playing public. If Epic needs to rely on "gamers" they'd go bankrupt.

Also I like how all of those theories just sit in vacuum, as if we're not going through a major economic contraction due to a two year global pandemic, but sure, everyone has the money to get themselves a second phone, because they decided not to eat anymore.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#59

There's a lot of debate and fine tuning of what should be allowed regarding things like the size of apple's cut, side loading or allowing a 3rd party appstore but it's painfully clear to me that banning app developers from even mentioning an alternate payment method is very anti-consumer.

It's just so obviously anti-competitve and harmful to consumers. If that doesn't get slapped down it's somewhat hard to imagine what possibly would.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#60
post #39

I can buy a book directly on the Amazon iOS app, but I can't buy an ebook. That seems like the most fundamental problem to me and a clear case that this is anticompetitive behavior.

One bit of context to add: Amazon opted out selling ebooks one the app due to the the 30% fee imposed on purchasing in app/digital goods. They’re not disallowed from selling ebooks.

I mention this because it’s both an important distinction and the same subject as Epic’s lawsuit.

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