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The Textbook That Unleashed Ramanujan's Genius

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Re: The Textbook That Unleashed Ramanujan's Genius

#111

Post by ItsMonkk »

valarauko wrote: post #107
ItsMonkk wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still thinking of it in one big sort. That's the centralized method. That relies on metrics. You want several gradual sorts from the bottom up where each sortation relies on personal accountability between the different teachers and administrations. It would probably look much closer to the European football leagues. You would have gradual promotions and relegations every year.

I admit I'm quite baffled by your recommendation. Is there an example where this system is employed for the purpose of college admissions? > each sortation relies on personal accountability between the different teachers and administrations How would such a system actually work? As an illustrative example, the year I graduated High School I was one among about ~ 300K graduating students in my province. There were onl…

You can not rely on metrics. A letter of recommendation from someone you have never met is just another metric. You keep thinking of this from the top down perspective. India might have such scale that perhaps nothing else is possible. But the more scarce the resources are, the more important that they are used properly.

By 3rd grade you would be filtered into the best class in your city. By the 9th grade you would be filtered into the top province level school. By college, you would be filtered into the position that you already earned. In America we call this system the magnet schools. All I am suggesting is to make this more fluid, and with digital schools coming to be as a result of CO-VID, is the perfect time to experiment with such a system.

More importantly than attempting to fix the Indian education system is what can you do to help against metricification. Do not rely on others scores. If you are hiring and get a resume from someone who did not go to a prestigious school, do not throw it away without looking. People are more than a number. The best often do not look like the best.

Re: The Textbook That Unleashed Ramanujan's Genius

#112

Post by alex_smart »

random314 wrote: post #109
alex_smart wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't participate in good faith in a discussion with someone who doesn't have the ability to be respectful to opinions different from his own. Have a good day.

I have never witnessed a weaker copout either :D, AIR notwithstanding. I always have a good day.

Begone, troll.

Re: The Textbook That Unleashed Ramanujan's Genius

#113

Post by random314 »

valarauko wrote: post #79
random314 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> irrespective of their backgrounds, to devote two years of their lives to serious study I don't know how you can make such a statement with a single digit rank. JEE offers the middle and upper middle class an opportunity to leap into the rich class. What percentage of India is middle class? How many lower middle class and poor folks can send their kids to kota to study for JEE? How much would it cost the Indian gove…

> How much would it cost the Indian government to develop detailed coaching videos by IIT professors and upload it for free to YouTube? I realize this is entirely tangential to the thrust of this sub-thread, but I don't think the government really should be encouraging coaching (with some caveats). The goal of the JEE is to identify the top 1% of applicants, or more accurately the top n number of candidates. In 10 ye…

Coaching classes actually do teach physics. It is not simply a shop teaching tricks. You cannot simply qualify for JEE by learning tricks for 2 years.

I should probably have used the word "teaching" instead of "coaching".

The problem is that the quality of science education in India at the high school level is really poor. To make the exam more equitable, we have to push for higher quality educational content accessible to everyone.

To give an example of how poor high school science education is - I was taught ohm's law in 8th grade when I didn't know what voltage was? Voltage was actually defined 3 years later, which is super ridiculous.

This causes students to believe that science is about memorizing equations and learning how to apply simple templates to solve problems derived from the same template. They are not even aware that they don't understand the terms they use. These students confuse familiarity with understanding. I have met so many electrical engineers who don't know what voltage is. They simply repeat the definition they learned in 8th grade. Voltage is potential difference. However, they don't know what potential difference is. They don't think they even need to know that. The actual definition is simply physics esoterica for them.

Such a student will be completely stumped on how to solve a simple ohms law problem, if we change the wording of the question from voltage to force and distancing and electric current to the speed of charged particles.

Re: The Textbook That Unleashed Ramanujan's Genius

#114

Post by boruto »

random314 wrote: post #101
boruto wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> : I was top 10 in JEE This should be anti-source if you say you don't need to prepare hard enough.

Bragging about JEE rank (called AIR) is almost unavoidable with folks from IIT. In this case it would invalidate his argument, because he is an outlier sample. But they can't help themselves :)

Well that bragging made my first year the worst year at college. I would have enjoyed more had I opted for a less prestigious IIT.

Re: The Textbook That Unleashed Ramanujan's Genius

#115

Post by random314 »

valarauko wrote: post #81
alex_smart wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can not test intelligence, you can only test knowledge. You absolutely can test for a combination of intelligence and knowledge. >But everyone wants to know intelligence. Seldom do people actually care about intelligence in isolation. What use is intelligence without the discipline and ability to apply yourself towards a goal for a considerable length of time? >As the people who study for a long time keep increa…

> Even with the coaching industry trying to lure parents into sending kids to them since Kindergarten, year after year it turns out that the students who do best in the JEE have only had two years of dedicated preparation. Because that is all the time that is needed for a talented student to prepare for the material that is being tested. Do we have any figures (anecdotal or otherwise) of how many students in the top…

Several of the candidates qualifying for the exam have appeared multiple times for the exam. Very often the students have been studying for more than 2 years.

Re: The Textbook That Unleashed Ramanujan's Genius

#116

Post by random314 »

alex_smart wrote: post #105
valarauko wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking about the JEE Mains, because that's the only score the majority of students will be able to use for all the other (non-IIT) colleges. Even if we consider the Advanced, the difference between the top two ranks was only 6 points, and the top 8 were within the 25 point spread that separated the top two in your year (I'm using 2019 for a non pandemic perturbed year). The top 10 were separated by an average…

>Yes, some families from Bihar are able to muster up the amount Not "some". It is literally lakhs of families every year. And if you look at the data of total number of JEE candidates from Bihar, that is actually a very significant percentage. Even if you believe that coaching is not accessible to the average bright motivated Bihari student, the very fact that so many people from the poorest, most backward part of th…

> the very fact that so many people from the poorest, most backward part of the country

You keep repeating this misdirection everywhere. Students studying in Kota from the poorest and most backward states are not themselves from poor and backward families. India has tremendous wealth inequality as does Bihar. If they were, they wouldn't be able to afford 2 years of coaching and lodging in Kota.

Re: The Textbook That Unleashed Ramanujan's Genius

#117

Post by rdedev »

alex_smart wrote: post #68
rdedev wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My issue with JEE and the entrance examination system as a whole in India is that it grades students based on a combination of just 3 subjects, physics, chemistry and maths. It dosent matter if you are passionate about computer science and you have the talent to code well, it won't get you a seat into the CS department at any IIT. Atleast it was like this when I was preparing for it. I don't know if the system is the…

If you spend five minutes thinking about the problem at hand, you will yourself realize why things have to be the way they are. Anyway, you can take heart in the fact that if your goal is just to learn programming, a computer science department at an IIT is probably the last place you want to be. I'm only half joking. The curriculum is tilted heavily towards theory, reflecting the attitudes of the professors who obvi…

I don't understand why universities can't give a certain weightage to some specialized examinations. Like some international Olympiad for CS. We already have something like this if you are a KVPY scholar. But all universities only look at your entrance exam marks. Other than just trying to maintain the status quo I don't know why they can't change this current system.

Also even if the subject taught at IIT is not worth it it opens a lot more doors than what my college can ever do. In things like research.

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