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Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

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Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#81

Post by URSpider94 »

theluketaylor wrote: post #44

Ford came so close to nailing it. They are doing a special EV frame, including the first independent rear suspension for F-150. 300 mile range available is great. Packaging everything extremely well to offer 400 litres in the frunk is an absolute game changer for truck owners. Re-using the F-150 body shell keeps costs down and allows them to easily provide interior feature parity. 9.6 kW to run your home and tons of…

The F-150 has a battery that’s between 50% and 100% bigger than the battery in the Ioniq 5.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#82

Post by mcot2 »

SigmundA wrote: post #48
theluketaylor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The feature list is fantastic, especially since Ford leaned into the EV-ness with powering the home and so many outlets in the bed and frunk. They came so close to nailing it, but the charge curve is simply not acceptable. 41 minutes for 15-80% is way, way too long. Hyundai Ionic 5 is the same starting price and is close to 20 minutes. The F-150 has a much bigger battery, but that should also mean it can maintain the…

800v adds some complications, if the pack is 800v you need a boost converter to charge from 400v or the pack needs to dynamically reconfigure with contactors or something. On the Porsche Taycan which has an 800v battery you have to pay extra for full 150kw charging on 400v because of the voltage booster cost, the standard booster only allows 50kw and there is some loss in the conversion you will pay for. Same issues…

Tesla Supercharger V3 can get to 250kW at 400V. The charge cable is liquid cooled due to the massive current which does add some cost.

V2 Supercharger limitation does appear to be the heat in the cable and connector. We know the battery can accept more current but it is limited due to the cable.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#83

Post by mcrutcher »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #41
wazokazi wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are incentives even necessary anymore? Regardless, this just shows how well Ford understands the truck market. This will sell like hot cakes, and they will have trouble keeping up with demand.

EVs are currently 5% of annual sales. They need to be 60% by 2030, and 100% by 2035. Yea, incentives are still necessary, but higher taxes on combustion vehicles as well.

If they're almost at cost parity now it seems like a sure bet that you'd have to have a very abnormal use case to consider a gas vehicle 5 years from now.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#84

Post by [deleted] »

mcrutcher wrote: post #83
toomuchtodo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are currently 5% of annual sales. They need to be 60% by 2030, and 100% by 2035. Yea, incentives are still necessary, but higher taxes on combustion vehicles as well.

If they're almost at cost parity now it seems like a sure bet that you'd have to have a very abnormal use case to consider a gas vehicle 5 years from now.

[deleted]

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#85

Post by mcot2 »

mint2 wrote: post #37
aynyc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the amount of GOOD EV coming to market, I think a lot of places (gas stations, etc) can quickly pivot to support charging stations, assuming incentives align with them. It's naturally for a lot of places with free parking (such as strip malls) to rent out the parking spaces to charging providers for extra cash. Just like cell towers.

I don’t think gas stations are set up for this. Who wants to spend 25 minutes hanging out in a gas station convenience store? Cafes or any other place to relax for 25 minutes seems the fuel station of the future.

Wawa (gas station chain) has already opened the first store with only charging and no gas in Northern VA. It’s basically a mini-mart with Tesla Superchargers.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#86

Post by mcot2 »

URSpider94 wrote: post #81
theluketaylor wrote: post #44

Ford came so close to nailing it. They are doing a special EV frame, including the first independent rear suspension for F-150. 300 mile range available is great. Packaging everything extremely well to offer 400 litres in the frunk is an absolute game changer for truck owners. Re-using the F-150 body shell keeps costs down and allows them to easily provide interior feature parity. 9.6 kW to run your home and tons of…

The F-150 has a battery that’s between 50% and 100% bigger than the battery in the Ioniq 5.

Thus the charging curve should be better and not worse.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#87

Post by clouddrover »

clouddrover wrote: post #70
908B64B197 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of a standard is to have it deployed. That's where Tesla's edge lies ie, it's not just a spec somewhere on a pdf but an actual real charging network that... just works!

CCS is deployed at 4,375 charging locations in North America ( https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html ). That number will continue to go up. The fastest EV cannonball run to date was done with a Porsche Taycan on Electrify America: https://insideevs.com/news/464763/porsche-taycan-beats-elect...

And in fact it has gone up in the last 4 hours. It's now up to 4,380 CCS locations.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#88

Post by mateo1 »

zikduruqe wrote: post #9
youeseh wrote: post #3

Unlike a Tesla, your Ford's price isn't going to be the same as the MSRP. Dealers will charge what they think they can sell the vehicle for. If the demand is high, there will be a markup.

Hopefully manufacturers can start selling direct to consumers, versus having to go through a dealer (varies state to state). That would take out the middleman. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/competition-matters/20...

How are going to test drive cars then? You need dealers even when they're run by the manufacturer.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#89

Post by rs999gti »

Animats wrote: post #2

Starts just under $40K. Before federal EV incentive payments. Compares to $30.6K for the 2022 gas version. After incentives, the difference is only about $2.5K. This is when electric vehicles really start taking over.

> This is when electric vehicles really start taking over.

Price is one aspect, the other is looks. This looks like a truck and probably drives and handles like a truck.

Truck buyers are already financing $60K trucks, this design being exactly like a body on frame F150 makes the decision easier.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#90

Post by SigmundA »

mcot2 wrote: post #82
SigmundA wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

800v adds some complications, if the pack is 800v you need a boost converter to charge from 400v or the pack needs to dynamically reconfigure with contactors or something. On the Porsche Taycan which has an 800v battery you have to pay extra for full 150kw charging on 400v because of the voltage booster cost, the standard booster only allows 50kw and there is some loss in the conversion you will pay for. Same issues…

Tesla Supercharger V3 can get to 250kW at 400V. The charge cable is liquid cooled due to the massive current which does add some cost. V2 Supercharger limitation does appear to be the heat in the cable and connector. We know the battery can accept more current but it is limited due to the cable.

CCS chargers above 50kw are usually liquid cooled as well. Above 200amps it really needs it for manageable cable size and CCS goes to 500 amps while Tesla goes to 800 amps.

CCS goes to 1000v too which is theoretically 500kw.

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