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Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

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Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#71

Post by clouddrover »

maxharris wrote: post #33
clouddrover wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla is the de facto standard. Not when other EVs can't charge on their chargers it isn't.

Tesla has offered other companies access for years, and very few have accepted it: https://www.electrive.com/2020/12/22/tesla-superchargers-alr...

In contrast, no one needs to be "offered access" to deploy CCS chargers. You can just go ahead and build them.

Locked charging networks are a stupid outcome for everyone. I can fuel my ICE car at any fueling station so I should be able to charge my EV at any charging station. Anything less just makes EVs worse.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#72

Post by jdofaz »

clouddrover wrote: post #24
mensetmanusman wrote: post #17

This is needed ASAP to help the ice>ev transition speed up. Automakers should work together and just support Tesla charging stations. This would benefit everyone.

Everyone else is working together. They're using CCS. Even Nissan has switched to CCS. The only laggard at this point is Tesla. Tesla switched to CCS in Europe. When will they switch to CCS in North America?

I don't think Tesla will change it anytime soon, but if you want it Setec makes a CCS1 to Tesla Adapter.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#73

Post by jdofaz »

kesselvon wrote: post #28
brianwawok wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think the legacy automakers can. They are in too deep with dealers. Up to a new wave of automakers to take over.

In most states it's illegal

I don't think that is true anymore. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#74

Post by SigmundA »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #69
SigmundA wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

800v adds some complications, if the pack is 800v you need a boost converter to charge from 400v or the pack needs to dynamically reconfigure with contactors or something. On the Porsche Taycan which has an 800v battery you have to pay extra for full 150kw charging on 400v because of the voltage booster cost, the standard booster only allows 50kw and there is some loss in the conversion you will pay for. Same issues…

All ElectrifyAmerica chargers in the US are 800v though, and they're basically 95% of the non-Tesla market these days.

Are you sure? They clearly state not all are 350kw but they seem to obfuscate how many are, it would be nice to know, they should have a map filter specifically for it:

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/how-ev-charging-works/

"Electrify America stations have CCS chargers with varying speeds, ranging from 50kW up to 350kW. "

"Our 50kW to 350kW chargers will be available at charging stations near highways, and 50kW to 150kW chargers will be available in metropolitan areas."

Anyone know how many 350kw chargers they actually have deployed?

Are the lower power ones still 800v capable?

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#75

Post by kasey_junk »

brianwawok wrote: post #14
thrower123 wrote: post #11

Anything less than a 500 mile range makes this a nonstarter compared to ICE models. Although from what I've read elsewhere they are putting nearly a ton (1800 pounds) of batteries in the thing. There are people who use trucks as commuters, but there are also people that are on the road or out in the puckerbrush actually working out of them. Charging infrastructure is not good, and not likely to get better overnight.…

Have a 300 mile range EV. Drive it all over the country. Tesla will sell a million of these things in the next year. We must have missed then 500 mile requirement.

More interesting in the context of an f150 are fleet vehicles that never see anywhere near that requirement before parking for the night. Fleet sales are going to be the dominant variable for this truck.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#76

Post by theluketaylor »

SigmundA wrote: post #74
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All ElectrifyAmerica chargers in the US are 800v though, and they're basically 95% of the non-Tesla market these days.

Are you sure? They clearly state not all are 350kw but they seem to obfuscate how many are, it would be nice to know, they should have a map filter specifically for it: https://www.electrifyamerica.com/how-ev-charging-works/ "Electrify America stations have CCS chargers with varying speeds, ranging from 50kW up to 350kW. " "Our 50kW to 350kW chargers will be available at charging stations near highways, and 50kW to 1…

You can go on plugshare and filter for 200 kW+ EA and see there are a huge number of sites. As far as I know every interstate site has one 350 kW cabinet.

I'm pretty sure the 150 kW cabinets are 400v. If you're there in person you can check since the inputs and outputs are labelled by law.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#77

Post by SigmundA »

theluketaylor wrote: post #76
SigmundA wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? They clearly state not all are 350kw but they seem to obfuscate how many are, it would be nice to know, they should have a map filter specifically for it: https://www.electrifyamerica.com/how-ev-charging-works/ "Electrify America stations have CCS chargers with varying speeds, ranging from 50kW up to 350kW. " "Our 50kW to 350kW chargers will be available at charging stations near highways, and 50kW to 1…

You can go on plugshare and filter for 200 kW+ EA and see there are a huge number of sites. As far as I know every interstate site has one 350 kW cabinet. I'm pretty sure the 150 kW cabinets are 400v. If you're there in person you can check since the inputs and outputs are labelled by law.

Nice site, only about 250 total, Wyoming, South and North Dakota have none, closest one near me in Florida is about 40 miles away.

Is amazing how fast the infrastructure is going in. Seems much easier to build charging stations than gas stations so long as the grid can hold up.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#78

Post by theluketaylor »

SigmundA wrote: post #77
theluketaylor wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go on plugshare and filter for 200 kW+ EA and see there are a huge number of sites. As far as I know every interstate site has one 350 kW cabinet. I'm pretty sure the 150 kW cabinets are 400v. If you're there in person you can check since the inputs and outputs are labelled by law.

Nice site, only about 250 total, Wyoming, South and North Dakota have none, closest one near me in Florida is about 40 miles away. Is amazing how fast the infrastructure is going in. Seems much easier to build charging stations than gas stations so long as the grid can hold up.

Certainly a lot less environmental studies needed for a DC fast charger than burying a tank full of toxic liquid. Depending on the jurisdiction getting a large enough grid connection can take some time.

EA's rate of installation is really impressive. Their stability is getting a lot better too. Curious to see what happens when the dieselgate money runs out though. How much of their operations are self sustaining and how much is relying on the VW fines? Hard to tell from the outside. The roughly similar organization in Europe is Ionity and they charge an astonishing amount for charging, so I'm curious if the prices have to jump a couple years down the road.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#79

Post by URSpider94 »

zikduruqe wrote: post #9
youeseh wrote: post #3

Unlike a Tesla, your Ford's price isn't going to be the same as the MSRP. Dealers will charge what they think they can sell the vehicle for. If the demand is high, there will be a markup.

Hopefully manufacturers can start selling direct to consumers, versus having to go through a dealer (varies state to state). That would take out the middleman. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/competition-matters/20...

The contracts that dealerships have with the manufacturers would most likely prevent direct sales. It’s still illegal in some states, but even in the ones where it’s legal, the dealers would sue them for massive damages if they try to invalidate their franchise agreements.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#80

Post by URSpider94 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #26
thrower123 wrote: post #11

Anything less than a 500 mile range makes this a nonstarter compared to ICE models. Although from what I've read elsewhere they are putting nearly a ton (1800 pounds) of batteries in the thing. There are people who use trucks as commuters, but there are also people that are on the road or out in the puckerbrush actually working out of them. Charging infrastructure is not good, and not likely to get better overnight.…

Statistically nobody is buying a Lightening (or Raptor, or anything similiar) as a work truck.

Lightning is their new EV branding for the F-150. These trucks will come in everything from low-end fleet trim to $90k Lariat versions.

With the equivalent of a generator under the hood that can run a construction site worth of tools for the workday, I think there are a lot of people who will buy this for work.

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