Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 261 posts

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#121

Post by efaref »

II2II wrote: post #82
js2 wrote: post #74

I think some commenters are taking issue with this article for singling out English. Yes, the larger issue is native vs non-native speakers in any language. But this article is specifically addressed to native English speakers because English often serves as the common language in a room of mixed-language speakers. I'm a native English speaker. I don't find the article offensive, and I appreciate it pointing out how…

> I'm a native English speaker. I don't find the article offensive, and I appreciate it pointing out how I can be a more effective communicator. If you want people to communicate more effectively, then you state how to communicate more effectively. It is best to avoid criticism since the recipient is liable to take it poorly. Trying to be provocative will only result in the intent of the message being ignored.

For an article about communicating clearly, it was pretty poor at communicating clearly.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#122

Post by tomcooks »

riffraff wrote: post #115

Many years ago I had the chance to work in a research institute in Ireland. A common line for newcomers who worried about their ability to speak was that we had 25 or 35 different nationalities, and the Irish were the only ones having problems communicating in English. It is pretty obvious if you think about it, and not specific to any language: native speakers of X have to make an effort to speak "international basi…

The Anglosphere covers more than half of the world, being used to deal with other cultures and adapting to that should be taken for granted.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#123

Post by tomcooks »

Gauge_Irrahphe wrote: post #64
pbourke wrote: post #21

> The non-native speakers, it turns out, speak more purposefully and carefully, typical of someone speaking a second or third language. Anglophones, on the other hand, often talk too fast for others to follow, and use jokes, slang and references specific to their own culture, says Chong Isn’t this a description of native vs non-native speakers in many languages?

I'd say that most languages go into a much deeper level of detail than English does, by default.

?

Which languages and in which contexts?

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#125

Post by lsaferite »

AnssiH wrote: post #77
david38 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever been to France and tried speaking French after a few years of study? Have you ever had to deal with someone there who speaks far better English than you, but refuses to because of snobbery? This article is trash

That isn't really relevant to the article. The article is only comparing native English speakers to non-native English speakers, not other languages.

The comment you are replying to is exhibiting the result of the article's poor communication style. The way it was written comes across as too confrontational and sets people up to be defensive.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#127

Post by Kreotiko »

js2 wrote: post #74

I think some commenters are taking issue with this article for singling out English. Yes, the larger issue is native vs non-native speakers in any language. But this article is specifically addressed to native English speakers because English often serves as the common language in a room of mixed-language speakers. I'm a native English speaker. I don't find the article offensive, and I appreciate it pointing out how…

In other languages it wouldn’t happen at the same scale due to people also speaking a second language and realise these dynamics. Do you know many native English speakers speaking a second language fluently? I have been living in the U.K. for over 10 years and can count them on a hand.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#128

Post by anon43534908 »

I lived in France for 9 years and worked extensively with non-native speakers in English. My accent and word choice definitely shifted to a more international, neutral English at work. However if I started chatting 1:1 with a native speaker at lunch my speed and word choice would immediately shift and the other coworkers couldn't follow a damn thing.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#129

Post by freeflight »

tomcooks wrote: post #123
Gauge_Irrahphe wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that most languages go into a much deeper level of detail than English does, by default.

? Which languages and in which contexts?

Gendered articles and honorifics come to mind, that's where for example German has more "details" that afaik don't really exist in a comparable version in English, like duzen vs siezen.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#130

Post by labster »

corpMaverick wrote: post #109

As a non native speaker I struggle with this. I work with some native speakers which are more articulate, use a more complex sentence structure, speak faster and speak a lot longer. I often loose track of what they are saying and it is very hard to argue against them. I feel like a three year old.

You’ve managed to confuse “loose” and “lose” exactly like a native speaker!

The goal of communication is understanding. The native speakers you speak with need to work harder, the same as you do.

Post reply on HN