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Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

bbc.com

21–30 of 261 posts

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#21
> The non-native speakers, it turns out, speak more purposefully and carefully, typical of someone speaking a second or third language. Anglophones, on the other hand, often talk too fast for others to follow, and use jokes, slang and references specific to their own culture, says Chong

Isn’t this a description of native vs non-native speakers in many languages?

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#22
post #7

>The message, written in English, was sent by a native speaker to a colleague for whom English was a second language. Unsure of the word, the recipient found two contradictory meanings in his dictionary. He acted on the wrong one. >When such misunderstandings happen, it’s usually the native speakers who are to blame. So...somebody got a message they felt was ambiguous and confused them, didn't ask for clarification b…

>> but it was the person who sent the message originally's fault?

That's not what the article said at all. It seemed to place the blame on the word. I'm with you that one person should have sought clarification since they knew there were two meanings, but that's not actually the root cause. Another person may have only been aware of one of those meanings and made the "mistake" without ever thinking they needed clarification. The problem was the use of ambiguous language.

I find it really amusing to see someone thinking they blamed the sender. It seems like another example of how English speakers are so used to having to interpret words.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#23
post #18

You can learn how to be better understood as a native speaker without having to go abroad or even speak to a lot of people using English as a second language. In the UK, live in a city like Birmingham, for instance, with a strong local accent and even, in some parts like the Black Country, a unique syntax, e.g. "How am ya?". Now go live for a while in, for the sake of argument, Glasgow, with their own particular pato…

Even easier: pick up an introductory Greek or Latin textbook. I didn't know English grammar until I bought a Greek book and worked through it on my own.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#24
post #7

>The message, written in English, was sent by a native speaker to a colleague for whom English was a second language. Unsure of the word, the recipient found two contradictory meanings in his dictionary. He acted on the wrong one. >When such misunderstandings happen, it’s usually the native speakers who are to blame. So...somebody got a message they felt was ambiguous and confused them, didn't ask for clarification b…

>i made damn sure i double checked with them before i actually did anything.

Ahh well, most non-native speakers would be concerned about their English proficiency level. For some that would be a quality worth mentioning in the hiring process.

My experience would that most people will shut off and don't ask for clarification but try and fill the gaps. It's a rather common issue.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#25

So what was the word?? This is like those articles about photos that don't actually include the photo.

We're looking for a word that is:

- highly industry-specific

- has two contradictory definitions in some dictionary

- possibly identifying a multinational company

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#27
post #7

>The message, written in English, was sent by a native speaker to a colleague for whom English was a second language. Unsure of the word, the recipient found two contradictory meanings in his dictionary. He acted on the wrong one. >When such misunderstandings happen, it’s usually the native speakers who are to blame. So...somebody got a message they felt was ambiguous and confused them, didn't ask for clarification b…

>> but it was the person who sent the message originally's fault? That's not what the article said at all. It seemed to place the blame on the word. I'm with you that one person should have sought clarification since they knew there were two meanings, but that's not actually the root cause. Another person may have only been aware of one of those meanings and made the "mistake" without ever thinking they needed clarif…

I understood they were blaming the word. Words don't appear out of nowhere. The word was written by the sender, the implication is the sender's choice of words caused the problem which could have been avoided by using a different word.

I disagree with this premise and believe the problem could have been avoided had the receiver taken the self responsibility to make sure they fully understood the message before acting upon it and if they had doubts, such as when they found two contradictory meanings, should have just simply asked for clarification.

If you don't understand something, it's on you. I've been misunderstood, i've misunderstood other people and the easiest thing anyone can do in that situation is say:

'sorry i didn't quite get that' or 'sorry could you explain what you mean'

or something along those lines.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#28
post #7

>The message, written in English, was sent by a native speaker to a colleague for whom English was a second language. Unsure of the word, the recipient found two contradictory meanings in his dictionary. He acted on the wrong one. >When such misunderstandings happen, it’s usually the native speakers who are to blame. So...somebody got a message they felt was ambiguous and confused them, didn't ask for clarification b…

>> but it was the person who sent the message originally's fault? That's not what the article said at all. It seemed to place the blame on the word. I'm with you that one person should have sought clarification since they knew there were two meanings, but that's not actually the root cause. Another person may have only been aware of one of those meanings and made the "mistake" without ever thinking they needed clarif…

It’s clearly putting the fault at the native english speaker, per the title.

In an age of trigger culture and micro aggressions this article is a prejudicial sucker punch to native speakers of English.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#29
In one episode of Black Books, main character Manny finds out he can play piano. Other character Bernard wants to use it to impress a woman, so he forces Manny to hide inside the piano and play using spoons. Manny does it but later refuses to do it again. To convince him to do it one more time, Bernard offers him one whole week of vacation. Manny looks at Bernard, then extend his arms forwards, palms open up, and says: "spoon me".

In my native language we use declension everywhere. I could awkwardly say the same in my language, something like "olyžicujte ma" (o=equip/cover, lyžica=spoon, ujte=keep doing something, me=ma) - it is technically correct, but english didn't need to change any of those words, it just worked. English can convey the same meaning without unnecessary complexity.

I like this simplicity in language, it feels somehow superior. Simpler is better.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#30
When English is your second or third language in the beginning the difficult bits are the pronunciation, and then all the cultural differences. For example, university debt or debt in general is just not a topic in most of EU for those under-25. Hospital runs or calling an ambulance are also a no-brainer because that's free.

One of the major shocks for me was when I heard the story of someone who broke a leg, and stopped a friend from calling an ambulance because it'd be too expensive and instead called a taxi to get to the hospital. A combination of me being younger and naive, and not knowing the US so well back then, so I literally thought they were joking while they were telling it.

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